Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Arthur Khachatryan - Euronest, Aliyev Transit Move, Gyumri Mayor Arrest, Pashinyan vs. Church | Ep 481, Oct 26, 2025

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Euronest, Aliyev Transit Move, Gyumri Mayor Arrest, Pashinyan vs. Church

Groong Week in Review - October 26, 2025

Topics

  • Euronest session takeaways
  • Aliyev’s transit move and TRIPP
  • Gyumri mayor arrest fallout
  • Pashinyan’s push to control the Church


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Episode 481 | Recorded: October 29, 2025

https://podcasts.groong.org/481


Subscribe and follow us everywhere you are: linktr.ee/groong

Hovik (00:00:04):

Hello everyone and welcome to the Armenian News Network Groong Weekend Review for

Hovik (00:00:08):

October 26,

Hovik (00:00:10):

2025.

Hovik (00:00:11):

Yes, we're late in recording this, but here we are.

Hovik (00:00:14):

Our apologies as we had numerous scheduling difficulties.

Hovik (00:00:19):

And today we're talking with a member of the Armenian Parliament, Arthur Khachatryan.

Asbed (00:00:23):

Novik, before we start the show.

Asbed (00:00:26):

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Asbed (00:00:28):

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Asbed (00:00:33):

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Asbed (00:00:36):

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Asbed (00:00:39):

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Asbed (00:00:44):

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Asbed (00:01:01):

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Asbed (00:01:04):

Thank you.

Asbed (00:01:05):

And on with the show.

Hovik (00:01:06):

Mr. Khachatryan, welcome back to the Groong podcast.

Arthur (00:01:10):

Well, thank you for the invitation.

Arthur (00:01:11):

It's always a pleasure being with you.

Hovik (00:01:13):

Welcome on board.

Hovik (00:01:15):

Yeah, it's a pleasure having you.

Hovik (00:01:16):

Mr.

Hovik (00:01:17):

Khachatryan, you're fresh from the 12th ordinary session of the Euronest Parliamentary Assembly

Hovik (00:01:23):

being held in Armenia this year,

Hovik (00:01:25):

hosted by the National Assembly.

Hovik (00:01:26):

It's going on from 28th to 30th of October this year.

Hovik (00:01:31):

Tell us more about what this is, and I understand you're involved in some initiatives there.

Hovik (00:01:39):

What is Euronest and how is it different from all the other various bodies,

Hovik (00:01:44):

if you can just in the European Assembly?

Arthur (00:01:47):

Well, European Parliamentary Assembly,

Arthur (00:01:49):

I mean,

Arthur (00:01:50):

Euronest Parliamentary Assembly is just a venue platform that brings together the

Arthur (00:01:56):

members of parliament from the European Union,

Arthur (00:01:59):

i.e.

Arthur (00:02:00):

the

Arthur (00:02:01):

members of the European Parliament and also the members of national parliaments

Arthur (00:02:06):

from the Eastern Partnership countries.

Arthur (00:02:09):

Originally, it was like Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:02:18):

But Belarus has dropped off.

Arthur (00:02:22):

So their membership is suspended.

Arthur (00:02:26):

They've suspended their membership in Uranus.

Arthur (00:02:30):

Georgians boycotted the session,

Arthur (00:02:32):

obviously,

Arthur (00:02:33):

because of the position of the European Union regarding the policy implemented by

Arthur (00:02:41):

the Georgian authorities and the top wording used by the European Union when

Arthur (00:02:49):

talking about the elections in Georgia and also the local elections in Georgia that

Arthur (00:02:55):

took place pretty recently.

Arthur (00:02:57):

And Azerbaijan also boycotted the session.

Arthur (00:03:00):

And again,

Arthur (00:03:01):

the reason in my understanding is that they don't like the policy of European Union

Arthur (00:03:06):

towards Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:03:08):

And Moldovans were absent.

Arthur (00:03:10):

There was one or two representative of Moldova because their parliament was newly

Arthur (00:03:14):

formed and they haven't formed the delegation to Euronest.

Arthur (00:03:20):

So basically it were European MPs

Arthur (00:03:27):

few Ukrainians and the Armenian delegation,

Arthur (00:03:30):

but the rules of procedure say that it's valid,

Arthur (00:03:34):

okay? So even though the majority of Eastern partnership countries were not there,

Arthur (00:03:40):

the MPs were not there,

Arthur (00:03:41):

nevertheless, it was a legitimate session.

Arthur (00:03:45):

Well, European Eastern partnership is obviously highly politicized organization, obviously.

Arthur (00:03:55):

And given the tense relations between Europe and Russia,

Arthur (00:04:00):

you can imagine the tones of the discussion.

Arthur (00:04:05):

It was the main motive of the discussion.

Arthur (00:04:07):

So this is mainly criticizing Russia,

Arthur (00:04:13):

the Russia-Ukrainian war,

Arthur (00:04:14):

of course, supporting Ukraine by European MEPs.

Arthur (00:04:20):

Then they were harshly criticizing Russia,

Arthur (00:04:23):

Georgia's government.

Arthur (00:04:26):

And of course they were praising Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:04:29):

though I think the first time,

Arthur (00:04:31):

I've been a member of Uranus for four years,

Arthur (00:04:34):

the first time few European MPs also noticed,

Arthur (00:04:40):

let me say this way,

Arthur (00:04:42):

or spoke about their concerns about the situation with democracy in Armenia.

Arthur (00:04:49):

But the majority, of course, are praising Armenian democracy.

Arthur (00:04:52):

And you understand why.

Asbed (00:04:55):

I understand, but are they really aware of what's going on on the ground in Armenia?

Arthur (00:05:01):

Well, I'm sure they have their embassies report what's going on in Armenia.

Arthur (00:05:08):

In private conversations, some of them with whom we have

Arthur (00:05:12):

We know for a long time.

Arthur (00:05:14):

We have some relations.

Arthur (00:05:15):

Let me say it this way.

Arthur (00:05:16):

Not friendly, but whom you know for three, four years, for instance.

Arthur (00:05:22):

They understand what's going on.

Arthur (00:05:25):

But since they believe that Pashinyan implements a pro-European policies,

Arthur (00:05:32):

unfortunately,

Arthur (00:05:33):

some of them have their eyes shut.

Arthur (00:05:39):

And we warned about the double standards and that EU and Europe may lose

Arthur (00:05:46):

credibility if they continue ignoring significant backsliding of democracy in

Arthur (00:05:53):

Armenia,

Arthur (00:05:55):

if they don't notice or pretend they don't notice Pashinyan's attack against the

Arthur (00:06:02):

local self-governance,

Arthur (00:06:04):

against the press,

Arthur (00:06:06):

against the attorneys,

Arthur (00:06:07):

against the clergy.

Arthur (00:06:09):

against the opposition.

Arthur (00:06:12):

So this was the story.

Asbed (00:06:13):

Yeah,

Asbed (00:06:14):

there was one, I think,

Asbed (00:06:16):

Spanish member of Europarliaments who mentioned that,

Asbed (00:06:20):

you know,

Asbed (00:06:21):

we know about these things.

Asbed (00:06:22):

And if you guys,

Asbed (00:06:23):

if you Armenia want to become an EU member candidate,

Asbed (00:06:27):

then there will be investigations.

Asbed (00:06:29):

But the problem is that's one voice.

Asbed (00:06:32):

And I also don't know if the voice of the members of the parliament eventually

Asbed (00:06:37):

translate into foreign policy.

Arthur (00:06:39):

Well, that's a very important observation because when you look at the policy by the

Arthur (00:06:44):

legislature,

Arthur (00:06:45):

by European Parliament,

Arthur (00:06:49):

we are pretty satisfied because like,

Arthur (00:06:51):

especially on the Artsakh front,

Arthur (00:06:54):

there are several resolutions by European Parliament that condemns the destruction

Arthur (00:07:00):

of Armenian monuments in Nagorno-Karabakh,

Arthur (00:07:02):

in Artsakh.

Arthur (00:07:04):

The demands that cause to release the Armenian prisoners unconditionally and immediately

Arthur (00:07:10):

The calls to guarantee safe return of Armenians,

Arthur (00:07:15):

ethnically cleansed Armenians to their homes in Artsakh.

Arthur (00:07:20):

Unfortunately,

Arthur (00:07:21):

on the executive level,

Arthur (00:07:23):

we see that they are much,

Arthur (00:07:25):

let me say,

Arthur (00:07:26):

milder towards Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:07:28):

And obviously,

Arthur (00:07:29):

this is because of few countries in European Union heavily depend on Azeri gas

Arthur (00:07:38):

supply, fuel supply.

Arthur (00:07:40):

We tried, we tabled an amendment because originally in the text,

Arthur (00:07:44):

in the report,

Arthur (00:07:46):

there was a call to pursue with the issue of Armenian prisoners and destruction of

Arthur (00:07:56):

Armenian monuments and right of return.

Arthur (00:08:00):

So we want a little bit, well, not a little bit, a tougher language.

Arthur (00:08:04):

basically calling on Azerbaijan to release the prisoners to guarantee the return of

Arthur (00:08:10):

the refugees and to stop destruction of Armenian monuments.

Hovik (00:08:14):

And I assume the amendment is still up for a vote?

Arthur (00:08:20):

Yeah, the vote will take place 9 a.m.

Arthur (00:08:25):

Armenia's time, so it will be pretty late in LA.

Hovik (00:08:29):

Well, yes, I guess the outcome of this meeting will be next week.

Hovik (00:08:33):

But actually, you mentioned something I want to just get your thoughts on.

Hovik (00:08:38):

Armenia has made its intention and has codified its intention to join the European Union as law.

Hovik (00:08:48):

You talked about the executive, the role of the executive body in the European Union.

Hovik (00:08:53):

I know that many states within the EU are complaining about the lack of national

Hovik (00:08:59):

sovereignty and this situation is getting worse.

Hovik (00:09:04):

So, for instance, Hungary, I guess, is one of those.

Hovik (00:09:11):

What can you tell us about the EU as a structure?

Hovik (00:09:15):

the sovereignty that will transfer from Armenia to the EU,

Hovik (00:09:19):

and the fact that basically European parliamentarians are,

Hovik (00:09:23):

it seems like they are doing the right thing,

Hovik (00:09:25):

they're voting on the right motions in the European Parliament,

Hovik (00:09:29):

but the executive body is making all the calls.

Hovik (00:09:32):

So you will,

Hovik (00:09:33):

I don't want to devalue your effort,

Hovik (00:09:36):

but with all the great effort you're doing in this parliamentary assembly,

Hovik (00:09:41):

Euronest meeting,

Hovik (00:09:43):

von dear Leyen tomorrow will go and shake hands with Aliyev,

Hovik (00:09:47):

praise Aliyev,

Hovik (00:09:48):

sign contracts with Azerbaijan,

Hovik (00:09:50):

and they will make sure not to mention any negative things about Azerbaijan.

Arthur (00:09:55):

Well, it's a very valid observation,

Arthur (00:09:57):

but the executive cannot permanently ignore the opinion of the legislature.

Arthur (00:10:04):

So sooner or later, they have to take that into account.

Arthur (00:10:07):

Because if this becomes like issue of return of refugees,

Arthur (00:10:13):

forcibly displaced Armenians becomes a huge issue,

Arthur (00:10:16):

then European Parliament can create a headache for the commission.

Arthur (00:10:23):

But talking about von her Leyen shaking hands with Aliyev,

Arthur (00:10:28):

yeah,

Arthur (00:10:29):

this is the reality,

Arthur (00:10:32):

a sad reality,

Arthur (00:10:33):

and actually,

Arthur (00:10:35):

In one of my speeches during the plenary,

Arthur (00:10:37):

I said that I hope you will not allow Azerbaijan to continue blackmailing the

Arthur (00:10:42):

European Union and using their energy resources as a button against European

Arthur (00:10:49):

democracy.

Arthur (00:10:50):

And then you correctly mentioned about this law on the process of accession to the

Arthur (00:10:56):

European Union.

Arthur (00:10:57):

However,

Arthur (00:10:58):

it cannot be classified as a law in its classical sense because law has to

Arthur (00:11:04):

stipulate at least one behavior,

Arthur (00:11:07):

okay?

Arthur (00:11:08):

What you shall do or what you shall not do.

Arthur (00:11:12):

So when you read this one paragraph law, it says, Armenia says it wants to join you.

Arthur (00:11:18):

And then the co-rapporteur on the floor of the National Assembly was the deputy foreign minister

Arthur (00:11:26):

And he said that this doesn't mean that tomorrow we will start the accession

Arthur (00:11:31):

procedure,

Arthur (00:11:32):

the accession process.

Arthur (00:11:34):

So the law, the government says the law just signals our intention to join European Union.

Arthur (00:11:44):

But as of today, we are not going to take any steps.

Arthur (00:11:48):

And the European bureaucrats say that, okay, once we receive our application

Arthur (00:11:52):

will think how to act.

Hovik (00:11:54):

So Armenia,

Hovik (00:11:55):

I mean, geopolitically,

Hovik (00:11:56):

it seems to be biding its time because Armenia is a member of the Eurasian Economic

Hovik (00:12:02):

Union. Russians have said that you cannot have both.

Hovik (00:12:06):

So I understand that the civil contract leadership of Armenia is trying to

Hovik (00:12:12):

be very sensitive about this.

Hovik (00:12:13):

But in general, what does it even mean to join the European Union?

Hovik (00:12:17):

How far?

Hovik (00:12:18):

I mean, I don't want to rehash.

Hovik (00:12:20):

We've discussed this in the past,

Hovik (00:12:21):

but with all these repressions,

Hovik (00:12:24):

all these anti-democratic things that are going on in Armenia,

Hovik (00:12:28):

what is your real assessment,

Hovik (00:12:29):

in a few words,

Hovik (00:12:30):

of Armenia's likelihood and even qualification to be a member of the EU?

Hovik (00:12:36):

Well,

Arthur (00:12:39):

If you ask me whether in a foreseeable future Armenia will join EU, I will say no.

Arthur (00:12:45):

Georgia and Moldova are on the top of the list,

Arthur (00:12:49):

and I'm not sure whether Georgia or Moldova will join EU tomorrow or the day after.

Arthur (00:12:57):

It will take a long process.

Arthur (00:12:59):

Georgia tried to get into EU

Arthur (00:13:03):

they were very unsatisfied with the European policy towards their aspirations.

Arthur (00:13:09):

And I think this is one of the reasons why they turned off or basically froze this

Arthur (00:13:16):

desire and they have suspended the accession talks.

Arthur (00:13:20):

And look at Turkey.

Arthur (00:13:22):

I think Turkey tries to join the EU since 1959.

Asbed (00:13:25):

For 50 years.

Arthur (00:13:25):

Yeah, for more than 50 years, 19-something.

Arthur (00:13:33):

I think more than 50 years.

Arthur (00:13:34):

And if you analyze signals from European Union,

Arthur (00:13:40):

implicit or explicit statements,

Arthur (00:13:43):

the Europeans have said that they are going to freeze the enlargement,

Arthur (00:13:46):

at least for a while.

Arthur (00:13:48):

And especially the right-wing politicians,

Arthur (00:13:51):

they say that they are very unhappy with the expansion process.

Arthur (00:13:56):

And there were other...

Arthur (00:13:59):

saying that taking into account the bad precedent with Hungary,

Arthur (00:14:04):

with what Viktor Orban does,

Arthur (00:14:07):

they will consider having two-layer membership.

Arthur (00:14:11):

Like the new countries that will join or probably will join EU may not have voting rights.

Arthur (00:14:19):

Of course, I'm not saying that this is official position of Brussels.

Arthur (00:14:24):

However, there are already

Arthur (00:14:28):

signals like that coming from European Union.

Arthur (00:14:31):

So I really don't think that in a few years' time,

Arthur (00:14:36):

Armenia will even start,

Arthur (00:14:38):

they will even start the accession negotiations.

Arthur (00:14:42):

Obviously, they want to keep Armenia in Europe's orbit, obviously.

Arthur (00:14:47):

If I were in Brussels, I would do the same.

Arthur (00:14:51):

And trying to keep Armenia as far from Russia as possible.

Arthur (00:14:56):

And now Armenia has to decide because you cannot be a member of two economic and

Arthur (00:15:02):

political unions.

Arthur (00:15:03):

And Armenia is very much dependent on trade with Eurasia Economic Union.

Arthur (00:15:09):

Well, actually with Russia.

Asbed (00:15:11):

So I'm gonna take that segue because I think this relates to it also.

Asbed (00:15:17):

Last Wednesday, Ilham Aliyev was in Astana,

Asbed (00:15:19):

Kazakhstan,

Asbed (00:15:20):

and he announced that Azerbaijan was lifting all restrictions on the transit of

Asbed (00:15:24):

goods to Armenia via its territory.

Asbed (00:15:27):

He also said that if all countries involved in the unblocking work as fast as

Asbed (00:15:31):

Azerbaijan does,

Asbed (00:15:32):

then the so-called Zangezur Corridor would be open by the end of 2028.

Asbed (00:15:37):

Now,

Asbed (00:15:38):

one can guess that your colleagues in the parliament from the civil contract party

Asbed (00:15:41):

were quite enthused with this,

Asbed (00:15:43):

right?

Asbed (00:15:44):

Meanwhile, the opposition as well as various Armenian analysts were rather skeptical and

Asbed (00:15:49):

raised many issues and concerns.

Asbed (00:15:52):

Now, if we were to accept this unblocking at face value,

Asbed (00:15:55):

what are the positives for all involved countries,

Asbed (00:15:58):

including Armenia?

Asbed (00:15:59):

Are all roads and trains and air traffic, is everything opened?

Asbed (00:16:03):

Can Armenian airlines fly through Azerbaijani territory to Kazakhstan, for example?

Asbed (00:16:10):

What's going on?

Arthur (00:16:12):

Well,

Arthur (00:16:14):

if you read the joint statement of Aliyev and Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:16:21):

they said that Armenia would grant an unhindered access of Azerbaijan

Arthur (00:16:26):

from Western part of Azerbaijan through Armenia to Nakhijevan.

Asbed (00:16:31):

That's right.

Arthur (00:16:33):

Unhindered access with mutual benefits.

Arthur (00:16:37):

So when this document was signed,

Arthur (00:16:39):

when we had the Q&A session at the parliament,

Arthur (00:16:42):

during the parliament sessions,

Arthur (00:16:43):

we were asking,

Arthur (00:16:44):

what do mutual benefits mean?

Arthur (00:16:49):

Because in 2001, Pashinyan was saying, we shall open the corridor and Azeris shall pay

Arthur (00:16:57):

use this corridor to get from Nakhijevan to Azerbaijan in the opposite direction.

Arthur (00:17:04):

So money for transit, this can be a mutual benefit.

Arthur (00:17:08):

But they were saying that, no, this means Azerbaijan would give us success.

Arthur (00:17:12):

You know, this means lifting blockade and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Arthur (00:17:14):

When we're saying that,

Arthur (00:17:15):

you know what,

Arthur (00:17:16):

if the Sadarak here as part of the railway is not renovated,

Arthur (00:17:22):

then it's a dead end for Armenia.

Arthur (00:17:25):

Azeris will cross through Syunik from Kovsakan.

Arthur (00:17:30):

They call it Zangelan.

Arthur (00:17:31):

They will go to Nakhijevan.

Arthur (00:17:32):

Then they go up to the north and then they will go to west because to east,

Arthur (00:17:40):

the Eras Sadarak,

Arthur (00:17:41):

part of the railway is not constructed.

Arthur (00:17:44):

It's gone.

Arthur (00:17:46):

Okay, it's ruined.

Arthur (00:17:48):

But Azerbaijan hasn't said that they are going to reconstruct these few kilometers

Arthur (00:17:54):

that will link

Arthur (00:17:55):

are at Mars to Syunik Mars through Nakhijevan.

Arthur (00:18:00):

So this basically means that we are giving them an unhindered access,

Arthur (00:18:04):

which is nothing else but corridor,

Arthur (00:18:06):

because if a Japanese wants to get into Armenia from Bagrat Ashen,

Arthur (00:18:14):

he cannot enter Armenia unhindered.

Arthur (00:18:16):

There are some procedures, customs procedure, border control procedures.

Arthur (00:18:21):

Unhindered access means they can use this road

Arthur (00:18:26):

as if it's Bakusum Gate Road.

Arthur (00:18:28):

Okay, so what does this mutual benefit mean?

Arthur (00:18:31):

It's getting more and more clear.

Arthur (00:18:33):

Okay, so Azerbaijan would allow just to use its territory,

Arthur (00:18:37):

but they were not open border crossing with Armenia,

Arthur (00:18:40):

at least for time being.

Arthur (00:18:42):

And when Pashinyan's people,

Arthur (00:18:44):

Pashinyan's party members say,

Arthur (00:18:46):

okay,

Arthur (00:18:47):

the blockade is lifted,

Arthur (00:18:49):

we have new...

Arthur (00:18:52):

doors opened, the new doors are opened for Armenia.

Arthur (00:18:55):

I asked them, okay, let's go and see where the doors are.

Arthur (00:18:59):

Okay, it's like you have to go through Azerbaijan to Georgia and then to Armenia.

Arthur (00:19:05):

This means that Azerbaijan hasn't lifted the blockade.

Arthur (00:19:07):

The border is still closed.

Arthur (00:19:09):

For real de-blocking,

Arthur (00:19:12):

Azerbaijan should grant Armenia an access through its territory to North because

Arthur (00:19:19):

like I'm talking about Ijevan-Ghazakh Railway,

Arthur (00:19:23):

because it's much closer even to go to Tbilisi through that railway rather than

Arthur (00:19:30):

from Yerevan to Gyumri and then to Tbilisi.

Arthur (00:19:34):

It's much, much closer.

Arthur (00:19:36):

Then it shall grant Armenia access or right to use Azeri territory to go to east

Arthur (00:19:43):

towards Caspian Sea and to hook up with the Middle Corridor.

Arthur (00:19:49):

But they don't speak about that.

Arthur (00:19:51):

In his interview to Armand Press on the 8th of January,

Arthur (00:19:56):

Pashinyan said,

Arthur (00:19:57):

we made a proposal,

Arthur (00:19:58):

he said,

Arthur (00:19:59):

more than a proposal,

Arthur (00:20:01):

on opening up of the railway connection with Zangelan,

Arthur (00:20:04):

Meghri,

Arthur (00:20:05):

Nakhijevan,

Arthur (00:20:06):

Sadarak,

Arthur (00:20:07):

Yeraskh.

Arthur (00:20:08):

and I asked them,

Arthur (00:20:09):

and I asked the chief of staff of Pashinyan today any progress on opening up this

Arthur (00:20:15):

small thing,

Arthur (00:20:16):

and nothing was,

Arthur (00:20:18):

no information was provided.

Arthur (00:20:20):

But even if they open that path,

Arthur (00:20:23):

this will,

Arthur (00:20:24):

this may improve the efficiency of intra-Armenian transportation.

Arthur (00:20:30):

But if they don't open the road to west through Turkey,

Arthur (00:20:35):

or if they don't allow Armenia to use Julfa,

Arthur (00:20:37):

Julfa,

Arthur (00:20:39):

that connects Azerbaijan to Iran, yeah.

Arthur (00:20:43):

Then Armenia will be blocked on the west.

Arthur (00:20:46):

And if Azerbaijan does not allow Armenia to drive through or to use Azeri railway

Arthur (00:20:53):

to go to north to Russia and to Georgia and to Caspian Sea,

Arthur (00:20:58):

Armenia still will be in blockade.

Arthur (00:21:00):

So it's a big, big, big bluff.

Asbed (00:21:04):

Yeah. So what problems is Aliyev actually solving with this move, Arthur?

Asbed (00:21:09):

Whether it's domestic to Armenia,

Asbed (00:21:11):

domestic to Azerbaijan,

Asbed (00:21:13):

whether it's geopolitical or regional,

Asbed (00:21:15):

what are the problems that he is trying to solve?

Arthur (00:21:17):

Well, basically, in return to this unhindered access, he has to give something.

Arthur (00:21:25):

And this something is just allowing.

Arthur (00:21:27):

And I think it's just a single, it's a one-off event.

Arthur (00:21:32):

They've spoken about

Arthur (00:21:33):

allowing grain from Aktau,

Arthur (00:21:38):

from Kazakhstan,

Arthur (00:21:41):

to be transported to Armenia via Georgia,

Arthur (00:21:45):

via Azerbaijan rail.

Arthur (00:21:47):

That's it.

Arthur (00:21:48):

I don't know whether this will be like a permanent thing,

Arthur (00:21:51):

the permanent lifted the blockade,

Arthur (00:21:53):

or they are talking about one single event.

Arthur (00:21:58):

And I want to see how much grain is imported into Armenia through that room.

Arthur (00:22:04):

Because logistically,

Arthur (00:22:06):

it will be much cheaper if Armenia continue uses South Russia,

Arthur (00:22:12):

Georgia, Armenia,

Arthur (00:22:13):

the large pass.

Arthur (00:22:16):

But if private businesses calculate and they think it's profitable to import grain

Arthur (00:22:23):

from Kazakhstan,

Arthur (00:22:24):

why not?

Arthur (00:22:26):

But presenting this

Arthur (00:22:29):

transit as a deblocking of Armenia, this is immoral.

Arthur (00:22:36):

This is not true.

Asbed (00:22:37):

So at the time when it looks to us like the civil contract party is starting to

Asbed (00:22:42):

launch its 2026 elections,

Asbed (00:22:44):

is the timing of Aliyev opening this route just a coincidence or is he trying to

Asbed (00:22:49):

give them a gift and make them look good and help them get reelected?

Asbed (00:22:53):

Because it's clear that Aliyev likes Pashinyan.

Arthur (00:22:56):

Oh, obviously,

Arthur (00:22:57):

obviously, especially after the meetings in Istanbul between Aliyev and Erdogan,

Arthur (00:23:04):

Erdogan and Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:23:06):

and after the meeting in Abu Dhabi between Aliyev and Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:23:11):

Azeri Press was pretty blunt about that,

Arthur (00:23:17):

that Pashinyan is their most favorite candidate.

Arthur (00:23:22):

They are just threatening the Armenian opposition directly.

Arthur (00:23:26):

So obviously they will do anything to give Pashinyan higher chances to win in the

Arthur (00:23:32):

elections because they understand that Pashinyan's popularity is on its historical

Arthur (00:23:38):

minimum.

Arthur (00:23:39):

The signing of this declaration between Aliyev and Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:23:45):

I think it increased Pashinyan's popularity by five,

Arthur (00:23:49):

six percentage points only.

Arthur (00:23:51):

So nothing substantial.

Asbed (00:23:53):

Right.

Arthur (00:23:54):

But I think,

Arthur (00:23:55):

I have reasonable doubts,

Arthur (00:23:56):

I think that on the verge of elections,

Arthur (00:24:01):

Pashinyan will get other gifts from Aliyev.

Hovik (00:24:09):

Well,

Hovik (00:24:11):

while all of this theater is happening on the international stage between Armenia

Hovik (00:24:18):

and Azerbaijan,

Hovik (00:24:19):

Pashinyan is really cracking down

Hovik (00:24:23):

At home.

Hovik (00:24:24):

And we talked a little bit about it,

Hovik (00:24:26):

but in the past two weeks,

Hovik (00:24:28):

the attacks against the Catholicos of all Armenians,

Hovik (00:24:31):

Gareg II,

Hovik (00:24:32):

have intensified.

Hovik (00:24:33):

Pashinyar's regime has now two archbishops, a bishop, and many priests and vicars.

Arthur (00:24:39):

Heads of three dioceses are in jail.

Hovik (00:24:41):

Yeah, so the heads of the Shirak diocese, you know, Archbishop.

Hovik (00:24:46):

Yeah, Aragatsoten and Tavush.

Hovik (00:24:50):

Armenia has, I don't know how many dioceses, but three of the major ones are now headless.

Hovik (00:24:57):

A bunch of priests and vicars are also under arrest.

Hovik (00:25:02):

Additionally, they're empowering a defrocked priest.

Hovik (00:25:06):

So the Armenian government found the priest.

Hovik (00:25:09):

He used to go formally known as Father Aram.

Hovik (00:25:12):

He can no longer be called that because he has been defrocked.

Hovik (00:25:16):

His name is Stepan Asatryan.

Hovik (00:25:20):

Yes.

Hovik (00:25:21):

Despite being defrocked, he held a mass.

Hovik (00:25:25):

on Sunday at Hovannavank.

Hovik (00:25:27):

And Pashinyan made it a point to attend that mass.

Hovik (00:25:31):

He said that he would accept communion from the hands of the defrocked priest.

Hovik (00:25:37):

And essentially, Pashinyan is trying to legitimize

Hovik (00:25:40):

this defrocked priest, and it's a very dangerous situation in my opinion.

Hovik (00:25:45):

Pashinyan of course added that he'll attend next Sunday as well.

Hovik (00:25:49):

So it's clear that there is an all-out effort to cut out the Catholicos from all

Hovik (00:25:55):

his trusted circles and disable him from leading the church.

Hovik (00:25:59):

Pashinyan has vowed to unseat the Catholicos.

Hovik (00:26:02):

And at the same time,

Hovik (00:26:05):

all of the other close associates of the Catholicos,

Hovik (00:26:08):

like,

Hovik (00:26:09):

you know,

Hovik (00:26:10):

the pro-government media,

Hovik (00:26:13):

were spreading vile and,

Hovik (00:26:16):

you know, unconfirmed reports about Arshak Srbazan.

Hovik (00:26:22):

So where is this all going to end up?

Hovik (00:26:25):

What are the short and long-term goals of this government?

Hovik (00:26:29):

It seems like he basically wants to destroy the Armenian church,

Hovik (00:26:33):

if you ask me,

Hovik (00:26:34):

but am I missing something?

Hovik (00:26:37):

How is he going to...

Hovik (00:26:39):

If he attacks the Catholicos and removes the Catholicos,

Hovik (00:26:43):

how is he going to put the church back together,

Hovik (00:26:45):

if that is his goal to begin with?

Arthur (00:26:48):

Well...

Arthur (00:26:50):

What's really nasty in this business is that they've leaked out some nasty videos

Arthur (00:27:02):

saying that people on this video,

Arthur (00:27:06):

you know, belong to the church or are ranked clergymen,

Arthur (00:27:13):

which I'm not sure it's true.

Arthur (00:27:14):

But what's nasty is that

Arthur (00:27:17):

They've just filmed people.

Arthur (00:27:19):

They just keep filming people, their private lives.

Hovik (00:27:22):

In their own bathrooms.

Hovik (00:27:23):

I mean, if that is true.

Hovik (00:27:26):

So let's just say it's not confirmed.

Arthur (00:27:27):

Well, it doesn't matter.

Arthur (00:27:28):

It can be a high-level clergyman.

Arthur (00:27:31):

It can be just a janitor.

Arthur (00:27:34):

But they're just filming people in their own bathrooms.

Arthur (00:27:38):

And they are using these videos to blackmail people, to compromise the people.

Arthur (00:27:46):

This is unacceptable.

Arthur (00:27:47):

So on the state level, they are just violating privacy.

Arthur (00:27:53):

So back to church.

Arthur (00:27:54):

Obviously,

Arthur (00:27:55):

Pashinyan wants to destroy any institution that,

Arthur (00:28:02):

you know, any pillar of Arminia's identity.

Arthur (00:28:06):

He wants to create a new nation.

Arthur (00:28:08):

He wants to create a new church.

Arthur (00:28:11):

So this is his goal.

Arthur (00:28:14):

And I wouldn't be surprised that very soon there will be another big concession to

Arthur (00:28:22):

Azerbaijan and the attack on church and this nasty show in Arnavang was just to

Arthur (00:28:30):

distract the attention of the public.

Arthur (00:28:33):

Because in late July,

Arthur (00:28:35):

early August,

Arthur (00:28:36):

there was another wave of anti-church,

Arthur (00:28:39):

you know,

Arthur (00:28:40):

in summer, you remember in June,

Arthur (00:28:42):

July,

Arthur (00:28:43):

There was a big wave of anti-Catholic, anti-Church campaign.

Arthur (00:28:50):

And on the 8th of August, we saw this document initialed by Mirzoyan and his Azeri counterpart.

Hovik (00:29:01):

Yeah, tactically,

Hovik (00:29:02):

he's distracting the public,

Hovik (00:29:04):

but strategically also,

Hovik (00:29:05):

I think that...

Arthur (00:29:06):

<?> is the pillar that are very important for Armenia's identity.

Arthur (00:29:12):

He wants to create a new nation, a new church, and control everything.

Hovik (00:29:21):

I mean,

Hovik (00:29:22):

the Armenian church can trace their origin back to the apostles,

Hovik (00:29:29):

Thaddeus and Bartholomew,

Hovik (00:29:31):

right? So it's unclear how a civilian can cut that heritage and appoint his own people that he wants.

Hovik (00:29:43):

This is how it can still be called the Armenian church.

Arthur (00:29:47):

This is anti-constitutional to start with.

Arthur (00:29:50):

Because according to the Constitution,

Arthur (00:29:53):

state,

Arthur (00:29:54):

okay,

Arthur (00:29:55):

the secular power and the spiritual power,

Arthur (00:29:59):

the church, are separated.

Arthur (00:30:02):

The state cannot interfere into church's internal affair.

Arthur (00:30:08):

So this is

Arthur (00:30:09):

You know, the prosecutor shall have an investigation into this matter.

Arthur (00:30:16):

But of course, I'm not that naive to believe in it.

Asbed (00:30:19):

It seems like the government's interpretation is that the church cannot have any

Asbed (00:30:22):

say in the government,

Asbed (00:30:24):

including the fact that church people may not have an opinion on political matters.

Asbed (00:30:30):

Meanwhile, they can decide who should be Catholicos.

Arthur (00:30:34):

No, no, no, basically not.

Arthur (00:30:35):

It's very dangerous, okay?

Arthur (00:30:36):

The clergyman shall pray only.

Arthur (00:30:39):

The scientists shall make new discoveries only.

Arthur (00:30:45):

Who else?

Arthur (00:30:47):

The engineers shall do their civic or mechanical or, I don't know, industrial engineering.

Arthur (00:30:53):

The painters shall paint.

Arthur (00:30:55):

What does this mean?

Arthur (00:30:56):

Alienating people from politics?

Arthur (00:31:00):

making idiots because idiot,

Arthur (00:31:02):

you know,

Arthur (00:31:03):

idiot means a person who doesn't,

Arthur (00:31:05):

who is not interested in politics.

Asbed (00:31:06):

That's right.

Arthur (00:31:08):

Okay, so you want to create a nation of idiots?

Asbed (00:31:11):

They want everyone excluded except a small circle of people.

Hovik (00:31:15):

So with all this going on, I mean, we get asked this question a lot.

Hovik (00:31:19):

Why is the Armenian public

Hovik (00:31:22):

not moved to act.

Hovik (00:31:23):

It seems like they're docile, they're like, you know, tranquilized.

Hovik (00:31:27):

And isn't it the role of the opposition to also,

Hovik (00:31:30):

you know...

Hovik (00:31:31):

Well,

Arthur (00:31:31):

the discontent with Pashinyan,

Arthur (00:31:33):

the discontent,

Arthur (00:31:34):

okay,

Arthur (00:31:36):

is very, very high.

Arthur (00:31:37):

His popularity is on the lowest level, historical minimum.

Arthur (00:31:41):

Okay?

Arthur (00:31:42):

It's like a fog, okay?

Arthur (00:31:44):

It's like a fog.

Arthur (00:31:45):

And I think, I hope that this fog will become a cloud, will condense.

Arthur (00:31:51):

People are in

Arthur (00:31:52):

Some of them are in despair.

Arthur (00:31:54):

Some of them are in apathy.

Arthur (00:31:56):

Some of them are looking for new leaders.

Arthur (00:31:59):

Some of them are ready to go to the streets.

Arthur (00:32:02):

Some of them are waiting for elections to go and to vote against Pashinyan.

Arthur (00:32:07):

Okay, but the level of trust, the level of support Pashinyan enjoys is very, very low.

Arthur (00:32:17):

And again, like...

Arthur (00:32:19):

And maybe this is the reason why he launched all this attack against Samuel

Arthur (00:32:24):

Karapetyan,

Arthur (00:32:25):

because a pretty substantial or big part of the society perceives Samvel Karapetyan

Arthur (00:32:32):

as a new leader.

Arthur (00:32:34):

Some of them don't.

Arthur (00:32:36):

Doesn't matter. But anyway, Pashinyan is afraid that the opposition will unite or

Arthur (00:32:43):

Even if they don't reunite before the elections and after the elections,

Arthur (00:32:48):

the Gyumri scenario will repeat.

Hovik (00:32:50):

Okay, so on to further repressions in other areas.

Hovik (00:32:53):

The mayor of Gyumri was arrested last week.

Hovik (00:32:58):

or detained,

Hovik (00:33:00):

triggering protests,

Hovik (00:33:01):

court motions, and a flood of statements from both allies and critics.

Hovik (00:33:04):

Supporters call the case political and demand due process.

Hovik (00:33:09):

Meanwhile, government figures say the investigation follows the law.

Hovik (00:33:13):

Police made further detentions around rallies and hearings.

Hovik (00:33:17):

And we understand that access to media is also restrained.

Hovik (00:33:22):

We know that lawyers filed appeals.

Hovik (00:33:26):

and challenged the grounds for custody,

Hovik (00:33:27):

but the end result is that Vartan Ghukasyan,

Hovik (00:33:31):

the mayor of Gyumri,

Hovik (00:33:32):

is still in detention,

Hovik (00:33:34):

in pretrial detention.

Hovik (00:33:36):

The main takeaway from this,

Hovik (00:33:37):

I mean, we'll talk more about the actual event,

Hovik (00:33:40):

but it seems like just like in Vanadzor,

Hovik (00:33:42):

whenever someone that civil contract doesn't like wins,

Hovik (00:33:47):

after you beat them in elections,

Hovik (00:33:48):

they suddenly become criminal.

Hovik (00:33:52):

How do you think this will affect the equation of quorum in the Gyumri City Council?

Hovik (00:33:58):

Let's begin with that,

Hovik (00:33:59):

because it seems like clearly they've been chipping away at members of the Gyumri

Hovik (00:34:04):

City Council to begin with.

Hovik (00:34:06):

We know, I believe there's one more City Council member who was detained.

Arthur (00:34:10):

Well, basically, yeah, there's also another member of the City Council under custody.

Arthur (00:34:15):

Well, as of now, the ruling coalition in Gyumri maintains the majority.

Arthur (00:34:21):

I don't know what will happen next,

Arthur (00:34:22):

but there are,

Arthur (00:34:23):

but the law allows to maintain the majority of the mayor of Gyumri or other members

Arthur (00:34:29):

of city council are under custody or detained.

Arthur (00:34:32):

If they like hand on their mandate and resign as members of the city council,

Arthur (00:34:38):

then the people on the party list,

Arthur (00:34:40):

the, you know,

Arthur (00:34:41):

the other people on the party list will take the mandate and become,

Arthur (00:34:44):

replace them in the city council.

Arthur (00:34:47):

Of course, uh,

Arthur (00:34:49):

I believe that Pashinyan will do everything to attract people from that list.

Arthur (00:34:59):

But I don't know whether we will succeed or not.

Hovik (00:35:02):

Yeah. So do you think that one of the reasons that people who are detained or who might

Hovik (00:35:08):

be detained in the future are not putting down their mandate so that someone else

Hovik (00:35:14):

can follow them is because they're being compelled not to?

Arthur (00:35:17):

I don't have any reasons to believe in that.

Arthur (00:35:21):

I'm just speculating what are the theoretical possibilities.

Arthur (00:35:27):

Someone can defect.

Arthur (00:35:28):

Someone may just resign.

Arthur (00:35:30):

I don't know.

Arthur (00:35:31):

This is just a theoretical thing.

Arthur (00:35:32):

They've tried that.

Arthur (00:35:33):

They did that, for instance, in Tallinn.

Arthur (00:35:37):

Remember what happened in Tallinn.

Arthur (00:35:40):

In Bert, when the elected mayor was detained, not to

Arthur (00:35:46):

shake the majority.

Arthur (00:35:48):

He resigned as a, you know, Mr. Manucharyan, Harut Manucharyan, if I'm not wrong.

Arthur (00:35:57):

He just resigned.

Arthur (00:35:58):

So the,

Arthur (00:35:59):

and the number two resigned and the new people come and they have the majority in

Arthur (00:36:05):

Berth community.

Arthur (00:36:07):

But it's obviously that Pashinyan want to maintain, to get control

Arthur (00:36:14):

of Gyumri, the second largest town before the national elections.

Arthur (00:36:20):

And we will be having,

Arthur (00:36:24):

like in the community of Vagharshapat,

Arthur (00:36:27):

they will have local elections in less than three weeks.

Arthur (00:36:33):

And of course, for them, this will be just crucial.

Hovik (00:36:37):

Yeah, Vagharshapat is the home of Etchmiadzin as well, so it has a symbolic

Hovik (00:36:43):

meaning as well?

Arthur (00:36:44):

If they lose in Vagharshapat,

Arthur (00:36:48):

they will reconsider or they will decide to go to regular elections.

Arthur (00:36:56):

If they win in Vagharshapat, I do not exclude the possibility of having snap elections.

Hovik (00:37:03):

Yeah, okay.

Hovik (00:37:04):

So I want to tie this issue of Gyumri back to your initial discussion where we

Hovik (00:37:10):

talked about Armenia's membership into the EU.

Hovik (00:37:13):

So what's interesting is that Vartan Ghukasyan was arrested for corruption,

Hovik (00:37:17):

but apparently his charges were not enough.

Hovik (00:37:19):

So just two days ago,

Hovik (00:37:21):

The government found it necessary to file an additional charge against him,

Hovik (00:37:25):

based on Article 422 of the Criminal Code,

Hovik (00:37:29):

which calls,

Hovik (00:37:30):

and I'm quoting,

Hovik (00:37:31):

public calls for seizure of power,

Hovik (00:37:33):

violation of territorial integrity,

Hovik (00:37:36):

renunciation of sovereignty,

Hovik (00:37:37):

or violent overthrow of constitutional order.

Hovik (00:37:41):

This law was passed under the Pacinian regime, just to be clear.

Hovik (00:37:48):

And what did Rukasian do to deserve this?

Hovik (00:37:53):

Did he support that Armenia should consider joining the union state between Russia and Belarus?

Arthur (00:38:03):

Well, basically, he didn't say explicitly the union state between Russia and Belarus.

Arthur (00:38:12):

He's a pro-Russian politician,

Arthur (00:38:14):

but in his statement he said about the necessity to join a union to guarantee the

Arthur (00:38:21):

security of the country.

Arthur (00:38:24):

And when you join any sort of union, any sort of union, you surrender part of your sovereignty.

Hovik (00:38:33):

So how is this different from Armenia joining the EU, like making calls to join the EU?

Hovik (00:38:40):

No difference.

Hovik (00:38:42):

No difference.

Arthur (00:38:43):

Why did the United Kingdom leave the European Union?

Arthur (00:38:48):

Because they thought that being a member of the EU cost too much for them to surrender.

Arthur (00:38:57):

The price of being a member of the EU was too high,

Arthur (00:39:00):

and they have surrendered a big part of their sovereignty.

Arthur (00:39:04):

Or if Armenia joins EU,

Arthur (00:39:06):

Armenia joins,

Arthur (00:39:07):

I don't know,

Arthur (00:39:08):

NATO,

Arthur (00:39:09):

Armenia joins Shanghai Organization of Cooperation,

Arthur (00:39:12):

Armenia joins BRICS,

Arthur (00:39:14):

Armenia joins,

Arthur (00:39:15):

has joined already the Eurasian Trade Union,

Arthur (00:39:19):

Economic Union.

Arthur (00:39:21):

Even if an individual marries, he or she surrenders part of his or her independence.

Hovik (00:39:30):

Okay, so am I understanding clear that the reason for this arrest,

Hovik (00:39:34):

so if I,

Hovik (00:39:36):

hypothetically speaking,

Hovik (00:39:37):

go on public TV in Armenia tomorrow and say that Armenia should join the union

Hovik (00:39:43):

state, or I support Armenia joining the union state between Russia and Belarus,

Hovik (00:39:49):

I will be charged with a violent...

Hovik (00:39:50):

By prison.

Hovik (00:39:52):

By prison.

Arthur (00:39:54):

Wow.

Arthur (00:39:55):

And you'll be in broad detention, you'll be deprived of visits,

Arthur (00:40:00):

uh and you'll get a sentence so this is this is direct violation of freedom of

Arthur (00:40:06):

speech okay so basically if someone says joining eu this is not crime joining any

Arthur (00:40:18):

union without a specification what kind of union

Hovik (00:40:23):

for that you can be jailed yeah and i know i'm getting close to being jailed here

Hovik (00:40:27):

but i'm going to say this too when i looked at the sovereignty that you give up

Hovik (00:40:31):

when you join the eu and you join the union state with Russia and uh Belarus at

Hovik (00:40:37):

least on paper the law the the sovereignty you give up to Russia and Belarus is

Hovik (00:40:42):

much less than you would give up to eu i mean uh i'm not saying i think army should

Hovik (00:40:48):

join the Russian state the union state between Russia but but you know that so so

Hovik (00:40:53):

I just don't understand how this can hold up in any court,

Hovik (00:40:57):

but maybe with this politicized environment,

Hovik (00:41:00):

you know,

Hovik (00:41:01):

worldwide.

Arthur (00:41:02):

Well, this is power grip, okay?

Arthur (00:41:04):

He just wants to kick all his political opponents out of the game.

Arthur (00:41:08):

I wouldn't be surprised if he bans political parties, like Dashnaktsutyun.

Arthur (00:41:18):

rejects registration of Samuel Karapetyan's political party.

Arthur (00:41:25):

So this is it.

Arthur (00:41:26):

He understands,

Arthur (00:41:27):

again, I want to repeat this once more,

Arthur (00:41:30):

he understands that his popularity is on historical minimum and he just wants to

Arthur (00:41:37):

clear his road and lock all of his political opponents with his funny charges.

Asbed (00:41:46):

Okay,

Asbed (00:41:47):

Arthur,

Asbed (00:41:48):

since we are running out of time,

Asbed (00:41:50):

let me just wrap up our topics and ask each of you for a final thought that you

Asbed (00:41:55):

might want to share with our listeners.

Asbed (00:41:58):

Hovig, do you have anything that's on your mind?

Hovik (00:42:02):

Well, I mean, I think that I was just thinking about the level of effort that has gone into

Hovik (00:42:09):

getting photographs and videos,

Hovik (00:42:11):

if they're correct,

Hovik (00:42:13):

of clergymen.

Hovik (00:42:15):

It makes me think if they can do that with clergymen, and we know that many other...

Hovik (00:42:24):

opponents of this regime have had similar things, have a similar compromise against them.

Hovik (00:42:30):

I just wonder if maybe the size of the Armenian NSS is maybe secretly maybe 10

Hovik (00:42:35):

times bigger than what is publicly reported,

Hovik (00:42:38):

because it requires immense amount of resources to tail all of these opponents and

Hovik (00:42:45):

anyone who might say anything about you and collect this information and store it

Hovik (00:42:49):

for years

Hovik (00:42:50):

ahead just so they can use it one day and it's a dire state of affairs in armenia

Hovik (00:42:57):

it's it's complete surveillance state illegally obtained uh you know surveillance

Hovik (00:43:04):

that is essentially being stored and used against you and here we have European

Hovik (00:43:11):

parliamentarians praising the government of armenia and armenia

Hovik (00:43:15):

at least pretending formally to be part of the European family of nations.

Hovik (00:43:21):

I guess it's a surreal state of affairs, to be honest.

Asbed (00:43:27):

We're going to have to talk to a cybersecurity expert one more time.

Asbed (00:43:30):

I mean, you are one,

Asbed (00:43:31):

but we should have a conversation with a couple of our colleagues in Armenia to

Asbed (00:43:35):

discuss how this is actually happening.

Asbed (00:43:37):

Where is this data passing through?

Asbed (00:43:39):

Who is seeing it?

Hovik (00:43:40):

Who's got access?

Hovik (00:43:42):

I mean, the fact is- It's alarming.

Hovik (00:43:44):

It is alarming,

Hovik (00:43:46):

and there's no other way that these videos could have leaked other than it being in

Hovik (00:43:51):

the hands of the Armenian services.

Arthur (00:43:55):

You know, there is a joke in Armenian, okay?

Arthur (00:43:57):

It says, to be on the safe side, take a shower in your underwear.

Asbed (00:44:04):

Well, that's very sad.

Asbed (00:44:05):

I'm laughing, but it's sad.

Arthur (00:44:07):

This is a very black joke, yeah.

Arthur (00:44:09):

It's a very black joke.

Asbed (00:44:10):

Arthur, what's on your mind?

Arthur (00:44:11):

Basically, I want to just a very, maybe for that, for another show, okay?

Arthur (00:44:18):

I'm not sure whether you have listened to Pashinyan's budget state, budget address on Monday.

Arthur (00:44:25):

It was about one hour, 50, 55 minutes was budget for dummies.

Arthur (00:44:31):

But he sent a very important message speaking about army.

Arthur (00:44:36):

He says, we shall change the perception of the army.

Arthur (00:44:41):

We shall not call it like army.

Arthur (00:44:45):

Yeah, combat ready.

Asbed (00:44:48):

We're not supposed to say combat ready, but defense capable.

Arthur (00:44:52):

He said, we shall call it defense capable army.

Arthur (00:44:56):

It immediately reminded me about the Potsdam Treaty

Arthur (00:45:00):

German capitulation and Japanese capitulation.

Arthur (00:45:04):

When the winning nations have imposed restrictions on the use of armed forces by

Arthur (00:45:12):

German armed forces and Japanese armed forces.

Arthur (00:45:16):

So this means we see another demand imposed by Azerbaijan against the Republic of Armenia.

Arthur (00:45:26):

Like few days,

Arthur (00:45:28):

before the war,

Arthur (00:45:29):

before the 44-day war,

Arthur (00:45:31):

on the 21st of September,

Arthur (00:45:33):

one week before,

Arthur (00:45:35):

Pashinyan presented his vision called Armenia 2050,

Arthur (00:45:42):

strategic transformation,

Arthur (00:45:44):

well,

Arthur (00:45:46):

Armenia's transformation strategy.

Arthur (00:45:49):

And a goal, one of the goals in this strategy was to have per capita

Arthur (00:45:58):

most combat-ready army.

Arthur (00:46:01):

Who does per capita combat-ready?

Arthur (00:46:03):

No one knows.

Arthur (00:46:05):

I've spoken to many military people, high-ranking generals.

Arthur (00:46:09):

They said that's crazy, that term, you know, but now he says...

Arthur (00:46:18):

word combat ready may send a wrong signal because some people will think that we

Arthur (00:46:24):

are ready for combat operations on their territory and now let's change the mission

Arthur (00:46:31):

of the army as defense ready army so i don't know what will be the next next demand

Arthur (00:46:41):

imposed by Azerbaijan this was a

Arthur (00:46:44):

Very, very troublesome statement, very troublesome.

Hovik (00:46:47):

And I'm pretty sure that defense really also excludes the territory currently

Hovik (00:46:50):

occupied by the army of Azerbaijan.

Hovik (00:46:53):

Oh yeah, this is funny.

Hovik (00:46:54):

So anyway, that's a separate, you know.

Arthur (00:46:56):

They say that Azerbaijan will withdraw its armed forces in the process of delimitation.

Arthur (00:47:02):

Delimitation is that you know where the border,

Arthur (00:47:05):

when you draw the border line,

Arthur (00:47:06):

okay,

Arthur (00:47:07):

one inch here,

Arthur (00:47:08):

the other inch there.

Arthur (00:47:10):

But Azeris know that they have invaded into Armenian territory.

Arthur (00:47:15):

So withdrawal of occupying forces has nothing to do with the delimitation and

Arthur (00:47:21):

demarcation of the border.

Arthur (00:47:24):

So new surprises are waiting for us.

Asbed (00:47:29):

We've said for five years now that as long as you keep a loser in office,

Asbed (00:47:33):

the bar on success is very low.

Asbed (00:47:36):

All right, let's leave it there for today, Arthur.

Asbed (00:47:38):

Thank you so much for joining us.

Asbed (00:47:39):

We hope to talk with you to see if there are any interesting outcomes from Euronest.

Arthur (00:47:45):

Well, yeah, it's always a pleasure being hosted by you.

Arthur (00:47:48):

So let's see.

Asbed (00:47:50):

Talk to you soon.

Arthur (00:47:51):

Yeah, looking forward to your next opportunity.

Arthur (00:47:54):

Take care.

Arthur (00:47:55):

Have a nice day.

Arthur (00:47:56):

Bye-bye.

Asbed (00:47:57):

That was our Week in Review, and it was recorded on October 29, 2025.

Asbed (00:48:01):

We've been talking with Mr.

Asbed (00:48:04):

Arthur Khachatryan,

Asbed (00:48:05):

who is an MP from the Hayastan Dashinq Armenia Alliance and is a member of the ARF

Asbed (00:48:10):

Dashnaktsutyun.

Asbed (00:48:12):

And in the past, he has held government posts such as Deputy Minister of Territorial Administration

Asbed (00:48:16):

and Development.

Asbed (00:48:18):

He's been governor of Shirak and minister of agriculture.

Asbed (00:48:21):

For more information on all of us, just go to podcasts.groong.org / episode-number.

Asbed (00:48:28):

Check out the show notes and we'll have everything in there.

Hovik (00:48:32):

Folks, don't forget to hit that like button,

Hovik (00:48:35):

share our episode,

Hovik (00:48:37):

and help us in any way you can on social media.

Hovik (00:48:40):

It's much appreciated.

Hovik (00:48:42):

And then if you can make a donation, why not?

Hovik (00:48:44):

Podcasts.groong.org/donate.

Hovik (00:48:47):

We prefer recurring donations, but you can do a one-shot donation or a monthly donation.

Hovik (00:48:53):

It's your choice.

Asbed (00:48:54):

Wonderful.

Asbed (00:48:55):

I'm Asbed Bedrossian in hot Los Angeles.

Hovik (00:48:58):

And I'm Hovik Manucharyan in an even hotter second floor bedroom in Los Angeles.

Asbed (00:49:05):

Take care, folks.

Asbed (00:49:06):

We'll talk to you next week.

Hovik (00:49:07):

Bye-bye.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Arthur Khachatryan

Guest

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