Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Arthur Khachikyan - Imnemnimi Podcasters Arrested, Freedom of Expression at Risk in Armenia | Ep 485, Nov 14, 2025

• Armenian News Network / Groong • Episode 485

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Imnemnimi Podcasters Arrested:Freedom of Expression at Risk in Armenia

Conversations on Groong

Topics

  • Arrest of Imnemnimi Podcasters
  • What are the Government’s Real Intentions?
  • Silence of the West
  • Call to All Media: Cover Aggressions Against Freedom of Expression in Armenia!


Guest

Hosts


Episode 485 | Recorded: November 14, 2025

SHOW NOTES: https://podcasts.groong.org/485


Subscribe and follow us everywhere you are: linktr.ee/groong

Asbed (00:00:04):

Hello everyone and welcome to this Conversations on Groong episode with kind of a

Asbed (00:00:07):

breaking subject.

Asbed (00:00:10):

Yesterday, podcasters Vazgen Saghatelyan and Narek Samsonian were again arrested.

Asbed (00:00:16):

And days before that,

Asbed (00:00:17):

they had published a monumental seven-hour episode with third president of Armenia,

Asbed (00:00:21):

Serge Sargsyan.

Asbed (00:00:22):

And of course, the material was not very Pashinyan-friendly.

Asbed (00:00:25):

We have Dr. Arthur Khachikyan with us to discuss this issue.

Asbed (00:00:29):

He is an international relations expert from Stanford University.

Asbed (00:00:33):

Hello, Arthur.

Asbed (00:00:34):

Welcome to the show.

Arthur (00:00:36):

Welcome, Asbed.

Arthur (00:00:37):

Thank you for having me back.

Arthur (00:00:38):

I'd just like to point out that apparently I never went to Stanford University,

Arthur (00:00:42):

never got my PhD,

Arthur (00:00:44):

and I got really bad grades.

Arthur (00:00:46):

I'm also a Russian agent, Putin's close friend.

Arthur (00:00:50):

He calls me Artyusha, if you didn't know.

Arthur (00:00:52):

And I found out some amazing... I also used to be an opera singer in my past.

Arthur (00:00:56):

So, yes, go ahead.

Asbed (00:00:57):

That's funny because we also are routinely accused of being...

Asbed (00:01:02):

We are routinely accused of being Putin puppets as well.

Asbed (00:01:05):

But for the record,

Asbed (00:01:07):

I have known you since the 90s when you were in Stanford,

Asbed (00:01:10):

as a matter of fact.

Arthur (00:01:11):

You were the one who disconnected my email.

Asbed (00:01:15):

Through all the differences, you know, one thing... we can argue forever, but we are Armenians.

Asbed (00:01:20):

And when the subject is about Armenian issues, we're all on the same page.

Hovik (00:01:26):

Arthur, we know that you're also attacked by the Pashinyan media and you're in Georgia

Hovik (00:01:31):

right now.

Hovik (00:01:32):

We wanna focus on the attack,

Hovik (00:01:35):

the abhorrent attack on independent media,

Hovik (00:01:39):

especially the Imnemnimi podcast.

Hovik (00:01:41):

But tell us about your situation.

Hovik (00:01:44):

Why do you feel that you should be in Georgia right now?

Hovik (00:01:47):

I know you were in Armenia for a long time and what led you to those circumstances?

Arthur (00:01:53):

Sure, I'm happy to share it with you.

Arthur (00:01:55):

Before I do that, I'd just like to say Asbed and I knew each other back in the 90s.

Arthur (00:02:00):

And I miss the 90s because that was a time when we had statesmen running countries,

Arthur (00:02:06):

not ridiculous people.

Arthur (00:02:08):

There was culture, there was education, there was class.

Arthur (00:02:12):

There was film, there was music.

Arthur (00:02:13):

I don't know where it all went.

Arthur (00:02:15):

There were people who knew how to run the world.

Arthur (00:02:17):

There was reason.

Arthur (00:02:18):

Right now we have fanaticism from all sides.

Arthur (00:02:22):

And very sadly,

Arthur (00:02:24):

our friends in Europe and in America and so-called human rights organizations,

Arthur (00:02:28):

to which we have written,

Arthur (00:02:29):

by the way,

Arthur (00:02:30):

to Amnesty International Human Rights Watch, we didn't even get a response.

Arthur (00:02:34):

So in some countries,

Arthur (00:02:36):

some of our friends in the West,

Arthur (00:02:38):

they like to enforce rules and international norms and talk about human rights and

Arthur (00:02:42):

democracy.

Arthur (00:02:43):

And in some other countries,

Arthur (00:02:45):

they directly encourage this government to continue this horrible attack on

Arthur (00:02:50):

journalists,

Arthur (00:02:51):

on lawyers,

Arthur (00:02:52):

on priests,

Arthur (00:02:53):

on political scientists like me,

Arthur (00:02:55):

not only do they close their eyes,

Arthur (00:02:58):

showing this really disgusting double standards and hypocrisy that has completely

Arthur (00:03:03):

discredited the West,

Arthur (00:03:06):

especially after the events in Gaza and Syria,

Arthur (00:03:09):

But not only are they tolerating this, but they're directly encouraging him to continue.

Arthur (00:03:14):

There was a statement by a very,

Arthur (00:03:16):

very sad person who runs one of my favorite countries in the world,

Arthur (00:03:19):

sadly.

Arthur (00:03:20):

And his rating is... Let me pretend that I didn't say anything.

Arthur (00:03:25):

And his approval rating is at 11%.

Arthur (00:03:28):

So it was not enough for him to deceive the Armenian people and promise them that

Arthur (00:03:34):

France is going to stand by their side.

Arthur (00:03:36):

And that France is with them.

Arthur (00:03:37):

And then watch as 120,000 people were deported and say nothing.

Arthur (00:03:42):

And he was present during the meeting when the so-called leader of Armenia

Arthur (00:03:47):

surrendered this enclave.

Arthur (00:03:50):

He was there.

Arthur (00:03:51):

He was sitting there,

Arthur (00:03:52):

a person who talks about democracy,

Arthur (00:03:55):

human rights,

Arthur (00:03:56):

who is helping Ukraine in this war with Russia.

Arthur (00:03:59):

But when it comes to us, it's just words.

Arthur (00:04:01):

But actually, you know what?

Arthur (00:04:02):

It's our fault,

Arthur (00:04:03):

because that's what we always get from the West,

Arthur (00:04:05):

and we keep believing the same fairy tale.

Arthur (00:04:08):

So he directly encouraged this regime to continue to do this.

Arthur (00:04:12):

And he said, we're helping you build democracy.

Arthur (00:04:15):

So for this sad person,

Arthur (00:04:17):

when you arrest priests,

Arthur (00:04:20):

you drag them out of our churches on some made up charges because somebody wrote

Arthur (00:04:25):

something somewhere five years ago.

Arthur (00:04:27):

When you throw a lawyer to the ground in front of a courthouse,

Arthur (00:04:32):

I worked in a courthouse in the US for 15 years.

Arthur (00:04:36):

That was the best time of my life.

Arthur (00:04:37):

I love the US court system.

Arthur (00:04:40):

To throw a lawyer on the ground in front of a building would be unthinkable in DC,

Arthur (00:04:45):

in New York,

Arthur (00:04:46):

in Los Angeles,

Arthur (00:04:47):

in Paris,

Arthur (00:04:48):

in London.

Arthur (00:04:49):

So we're basically treated like Aborigines.

Arthur (00:04:52):

It is so despicable.

Arthur (00:04:54):

It is so disgusting for the West to do this because in their own countries,

Arthur (00:04:59):

they would never tolerate.

Arthur (00:05:01):

They would never tolerate the so-called leader of the state pretending that he's

Arthur (00:05:05):

Henry VIII,

Arthur (00:05:06):

declaring that he's the head of the church,

Arthur (00:05:08):

like in early 1500s,

Arthur (00:05:10):

then saying that I am the government.

Arthur (00:05:13):

Basically, not only do we have Henry VIII, we also have Louis XIV on our hands.

Arthur (00:05:18):

And then directly telling the court what to do.

Arthur (00:05:21):

So in the morning, he issues an order and he says, no judge will dare oppose my will.

Arthur (00:05:28):

And then in the afternoon, everybody points to all these people are arrested.

Arthur (00:05:32):

And you invaded Iraq.

Arthur (00:05:33):

Why? Why?

Arthur (00:05:35):

You toppled Saddam Hussein, why?

Arthur (00:05:39):

To support another Saddam Hussein in Armenia?

Arthur (00:05:41):

This is what you call democracy?

Arthur (00:05:43):

When a journalist who's responding to an insult by this hooligan,

Arthur (00:05:50):

this is just a bunch of thugs who came to power.

Hovik (00:05:53):

Let's just walk back a little bit, because this is the first time we're covering this topic.

Hovik (00:05:58):

So let me just set the stage, and then we'll go into all those details, okay?

Hovik (00:06:02):

So what happened was on Saturday,

Hovik (00:06:05):

The Imnemnimi podcast.

Hovik (00:06:07):

I mean,

Hovik (00:06:08):

it's one of the,

Hovik (00:06:09):

I guess,

Hovik (00:06:10):

novelties in Armenian podcast media,

Hovik (00:06:12):

in Armenian language podcast media.

Hovik (00:06:14):

It has been able to accomplish what others haven't in terms of people funding them

Hovik (00:06:21):

independently.

Hovik (00:06:22):

Yes.

Hovik (00:06:23):

Unlike traditional media in Armenia that rely on advertising,

Hovik (00:06:28):

which is not enough to cover news,

Hovik (00:06:31):

they have been able to achieve a massive following.

Hovik (00:06:34):

And maybe this is part of the reason why this is a thorn on the government side.

Hovik (00:06:38):

So in response to a statement by Alan Simonian, forgive me for using his name.

Arthur (00:06:44):

I would ask you to not use any of those names because they make me want to throw up.

Hovik (00:06:47):

Yeah, it's just there are more than one of them, so we have to distinguish them.

Hovik (00:06:51):

I don't know, maybe we can call them SOB number one or SOB number two.

Hovik (00:06:55):

But let's say, you know, Alan Simonian for this case.

Hovik (00:07:00):

He actually insulted the Imnemnimi podcast guys, and they responded to him.

Hovik (00:07:07):

Now, it doesn't matter what the insults were.

Hovik (00:07:09):

You know,

Hovik (00:07:10):

as far as I know,

Hovik (00:07:11):

at least on paper,

Hovik (00:07:13):

Armenia still had freedom of speech and insults were decriminalized.

Hovik (00:07:17):

But what happened is Alain Simonyan complained,

Hovik (00:07:21):

and we've talked a lot about this before,

Hovik (00:07:24):

where first the Pashinyan regime tried to criminalize hate speech or criminalize

Hovik (00:07:30):

insults,

Hovik (00:07:31):

and that didn't work.

Hovik (00:07:32):

The EU rebuked them, and they were forced to walk back that law.

Hovik (00:07:38):

But now they're using the hooliganism law to essentially attack free speech.

Hovik (00:07:43):

And what they did is,

Hovik (00:07:46):

in response to the Imnemnimi guys calling them,

Hovik (00:07:50):

you know,

Hovik (00:07:51):

insulting, I believe,

Hovik (00:07:52):

the mother of Alan Simonian,

Hovik (00:07:54):

as moral as that lady is,

Hovik (00:07:56):

and we'll talk more about her morals later today,

Hovik (00:07:58):

but he filed a complaint about hooliganism,

Hovik (00:08:01):

and on Thursday,

Hovik (00:08:03):

November 13th,

Hovik (00:08:04):

in the morning, 7.30 a.m.,

Hovik (00:08:06):

They broke into the homes of the Imnemnimi podcast fellows.

Hovik (00:08:11):

They arrested them like the worst,

Hovik (00:08:14):

like masked men,

Hovik (00:08:15):

like, you know,

Hovik (00:08:16):

arrested them like terrorists.

Hovik (00:08:18):

They confiscated all of the equipment.

Hovik (00:08:22):

of the Imnemnimi podcast, including tripods used for video cameras, including microphones.

Hovik (00:08:28):

If you know anything about technology,

Hovik (00:08:29):

a microphone or tripod does not contain incriminating evidence that they might be

Hovik (00:08:35):

able to discover.

Hovik (00:08:36):

Maybe there's some dust from their speech that they want to recover.

Hovik (00:08:41):

So, I mean, the tragic situation is that both of the hosts of the Imnemnimi podcast are

Hovik (00:08:48):

in detention, in pretrial detention.

Hovik (00:08:49):

Now,

Hovik (00:08:50):

of course, the courts immediately rubber-stamped the pretrial detention,

Hovik (00:08:53):

so they're in pretrial detention for two months.

Hovik (00:08:55):

Later Thursday evening,

Hovik (00:08:58):

One of the other employees of that podcast was arrested for obstructing justice,

Hovik (00:09:05):

even though according to the podcast staff,

Hovik (00:09:09):

they were all very compliant and very helpful.

Hovik (00:09:12):

And then this morning, another one member of that team was arrested.

Hovik (00:09:15):

So they have a total of four people either in arrest or in pretrial detention.

Hovik (00:09:20):

The entire apparatus, technology that is used by this channel has now been confiscated.

Hovik (00:09:26):

Confiscated, amazing.

Hovik (00:09:28):

What does it tell you about the intention of the government?

Hovik (00:09:33):

If this was a simple hooliganism charge, why would they need to confiscate the tripods?

Hovik (00:09:37):

And do you really believe that this is all about upholding law, as they say?

Arthur (00:09:45):

Of course not.

Arthur (00:09:46):

Let me say a few things so I don't forget.

Arthur (00:09:47):

Number one, he is simply shutting down anyone and everyone who opposes him.

Arthur (00:09:54):

He's getting ready for the elections.

Arthur (00:09:56):

Anyone who has any ratings or any influence is shut down.

Arthur (00:09:59):

Clearly, they did this to destroy

Arthur (00:10:01):

This studio to destroy this platform.

Arthur (00:10:04):

The intention was not to just punish him for defending himself against this loser's

Arthur (00:10:11):

statement, which he made earlier.

Arthur (00:10:13):

This has become like a hooligans brawl, this parliament and this state.

Arthur (00:10:18):

It's just disgusting.

Arthur (00:10:19):

They just curse each other out.

Arthur (00:10:21):

These outrageous violations,

Arthur (00:10:23):

attacks, terror,

Arthur (00:10:24):

are happening with the direct involvement of some of the Western governments and

Arthur (00:10:29):

their security services,

Arthur (00:10:30):

very sadly,

Arthur (00:10:31):

the UK,

Arthur (00:10:32):

the US,

Arthur (00:10:34):

very possibly,

Arthur (00:10:35):

actually not possibly, definitely France.

Arthur (00:10:37):

They are directly helping them.

Arthur (00:10:39):

turning a blind eye,

Arthur (00:10:41):

meeting with them and encouraging them because they don't care about Armenia.

Arthur (00:10:45):

They don't care about democracy.

Arthur (00:10:46):

All they want is to destroy any opposition to this guy because he's surrendering us

Arthur (00:10:51):

to Turkey and Azerbaijan,

Arthur (00:10:53):

our neighbors destroying a potential Russian base of influence in the Caucasus.

Arthur (00:10:58):

Now, let's just back up a little bit.

Arthur (00:11:00):

I'm sorry, but there's a lot of things that need to be said.

Arthur (00:11:02):

I'll try to be brief.

Arthur (00:11:04):

This guy had his bodyguards hold,

Arthur (00:11:07):

and you would know this out of all people,

Arthur (00:11:10):

he had someone hold his arms.

Arthur (00:11:12):

They held his arms behind him.

Arthur (00:11:15):

There was a citizen of Armenia,

Arthur (00:11:16):

of Lebanese descent,

Arthur (00:11:18):

and this Speaker of the Parliament spat in his freaking face.

Arthur (00:11:22):

He spat in his face.

Asbed (00:11:24):

I remember that incident.

Arthur (00:11:26):

Everybody remembers this incident.

Arthur (00:11:28):

It was in the middle of the day,

Arthur (00:11:29):

in broad daylight,

Arthur (00:11:31):

in the middle of Yerevan,

Arthur (00:11:33):

in Kaskad,

Arthur (00:11:34):

where Hovik and I go frequently.

Arthur (00:11:35):

This guy...

Hovik (00:11:37):

By the way, Garen Mkrtichyan,

Hovik (00:11:39):

the person who was spat upon,

Hovik (00:11:41):

is my neighbor in Armenia,

Hovik (00:11:43):

or was my neighbor in Armenia.

Hovik (00:11:44):

So yes, I know him very well.

Arthur (00:11:46):

What happened to him?

Arthur (00:11:47):

He probably left. I never heard from him since.

Arthur (00:11:49):

So this guy got away with it.

Arthur (00:11:52):

There was nothing, no consequence.

Arthur (00:11:54):

The,

Arthur (00:11:55):

quote, Speaker of the Parliament,

Arthur (00:11:57):

a former actor who was in certain type of movies,

Arthur (00:12:00):

which I'm not going to even mention,

Arthur (00:12:02):

spits in the face of a citizen with no consequences and the support of the West.

Arthur (00:12:08):

They are meeting him.

Arthur (00:12:09):

Today there was a meeting with him.

Arthur (00:12:11):

with Western embassies.

Arthur (00:12:13):

What kind of authority do you think you're going to keep after doing this?

Arthur (00:12:17):

How are we going to believe you?

Arthur (00:12:19):

You've completely discredited yourself.

Arthur (00:12:22):

Who is ever going to listen to you when you criticize Putin or Lukashenko?

Arthur (00:12:26):

Look at what you're doing.

Arthur (00:12:28):

You're directly supporting and meeting a person who spits in the face of a citizen

Arthur (00:12:32):

in the middle of Yerevan.

Arthur (00:12:34):

Then we have,

Arthur (00:12:35):

and without any responsibility for it,

Arthur (00:12:37):

then we have the so-called prime minister who uses the F word on his Facebook page

Arthur (00:12:44):

No one, no one accuses him of hooliganism.

Arthur (00:12:46):

He's the leader of a country,

Arthur (00:12:49):

not since the Babylonian or Sumerian scriptures in 5000 or 6000 years of written

Arthur (00:12:55):

history.

Arthur (00:12:56):

Have we had a leader of a state use the F word on his Facebook page?

Hovik (00:13:00):

Now,

Hovik (00:13:01):

I know that mothers are holy in Armenian culture,

Hovik (00:13:05):

and I think we should focus on the mother of this person who likes spitting.

Hovik (00:13:10):

She spat at people.

Hovik (00:13:12):

Yes, she was filmed in a protest doing the middle finger

Hovik (00:13:17):

spitting at protesters repeatedly.

Hovik (00:13:19):

And perhaps,

Hovik (00:13:20):

maybe this is genetic,

Hovik (00:13:22):

but this is how,

Hovik (00:13:23):

this is the person,

Hovik (00:13:24):

you know,

Hovik (00:13:26):

who Alain Simonian is protecting from insults.

Hovik (00:13:31):

And it's just a ridiculous circus nowadays in Armenia.

Hovik (00:13:36):

I'm sure, like, you have contacts in international media.

Hovik (00:13:38):

You said you tried to write to Amnesty International.

Arthur (00:13:42):

No response.

Arthur (00:13:43):

No response.

Arthur (00:13:44):

Or Human Rights Watch.

Arthur (00:13:45):

No response.

Arthur (00:13:46):

They only respond to you when you criticize the countries they want to criticize.

Arthur (00:13:50):

Otherwise, they're completely blind.

Hovik (00:13:52):

So we know that a lot of...

Hovik (00:13:55):

embassies in armenia english language embassies listen to us and view us we know

Hovik (00:14:00):

that for sure very good so what would you what would be a message that you send to

Hovik (00:14:04):

them because um you know i think it's important that uh you know they have no

Hovik (00:14:10):

excuse to say that you know they didn't know about this

Hovik (00:14:14):

Or, you know, there was no coverage in English language, so they responded too late, you know.

Hovik (00:14:19):

So by the time that the European Commission or whatever addresses this,

Hovik (00:14:23):

it'll be maybe month number four when Narek and Vazgen have served,

Hovik (00:14:29):

you know, two consecutive sentences for pretrial detention.

Hovik (00:14:33):

You know, is there anything we can tell them?

Hovik (00:14:35):

I mean, besides, you know, some of the insults that I'm thinking about right now.

Arthur (00:14:39):

Well,

Arthur (00:14:40):

if we were naive,

Arthur (00:14:41):

we would say that they should be ashamed of how hypocritical they are,

Arthur (00:14:46):

of how they have totally discredited themselves.

Arthur (00:14:49):

And we would never again believe any Western government or any Western-sponsored

Arthur (00:14:53):

NGO when they talk about human rights.

Arthur (00:14:56):

You have completely discredited yourself.

Arthur (00:14:58):

Your hypocrisy has become unbearable and despicable and disgusting.

Arthur (00:15:03):

You are directly sponsoring a campaign of terror and

Arthur (00:15:07):

people who have violated all conceivable norms of civilized behavior.

Arthur (00:15:12):

Yes, and let me finish.

Arthur (00:15:14):

His mom was spitting at Protesters, showing them the middle finger, no consequences.

Arthur (00:15:19):

The so-called prime minister has talked about his private parts and posted that on

Arthur (00:15:25):

Facebook and invited the head of the Armenian church to check if he was

Arthur (00:15:29):

circumcised.

Arthur (00:15:30):

Have you heard of anything like this?

Arthur (00:15:32):

Yeah, unbelievable.

Arthur (00:15:34):

This is unspeakable.

Arthur (00:15:35):

And they just had another meeting with them today.

Arthur (00:15:38):

The only reason why they're behaving this way is because they have the

Arthur (00:15:41):

unconditional support of the West.

Arthur (00:15:44):

That's the only reason why they're getting away with this.

Arthur (00:15:47):

Otherwise, they would be terrified of the consequences.

Arthur (00:15:50):

Let me just say again how disgusted I am.

Arthur (00:15:52):

of all those people who may be listening from the so-called embassies.

Arthur (00:15:56):

So that's that.

Arthur (00:15:57):

Then we basically have a system of terror.

Arthur (00:16:01):

Anyone who tries to challenge this government is being brought down.

Arthur (00:16:04):

There was no reason,

Arthur (00:16:06):

if there was a case of an insult,

Arthur (00:16:08):

there was no reason to send the state security service.

Arthur (00:16:12):

How does that national security, KGB, how does that...

Arthur (00:16:15):

How is that in the jurisdiction of the KGB?

Arthur (00:16:18):

Somebody cursing somebody out.

Arthur (00:16:20):

Can you believe it?

Arthur (00:16:21):

If like in the US,

Arthur (00:16:23):

if the National Security Service came after you,

Arthur (00:16:25):

if you use the F word with somebody,

Arthur (00:16:26):

this is despicable.

Arthur (00:16:28):

This is totally despicable.

Arthur (00:16:30):

So they took these guys away and they tried to like hold them down because this guy ordered it.

Arthur (00:16:36):

Well, basically, this is Saddam Hussein.

Arthur (00:16:38):

I have no idea why we did the second invasion of Iraq.

Arthur (00:16:41):

You brought Saddam Hussein to Armenia.

Arthur (00:16:44):

Look how they're behaving.

Arthur (00:16:45):

There are just no words for it.

Asbed (00:16:47):

Arthur, I don't know if you watch South Park, do you?

Asbed (00:16:50):

I used to a little bit, yeah.

Asbed (00:16:51):

Well, the past season has been quite amazing.

Asbed (00:16:54):

And to imagine that something... 1% of that could happen in Armenia is unbelievable.

Asbed (00:17:01):

When you basically say that the speaker is an idiot and you can go to jail for

Asbed (00:17:06):

months and months,

Asbed (00:17:07):

come watch South Park and look at the US democracy and the freedom of expression

Asbed (00:17:12):

here.

Arthur (00:17:13):

That's gone.

Arthur (00:17:14):

Sadly, that's gone.

Arthur (00:17:15):

I love the U.S.

Arthur (00:17:16):

and I used to really believe in the Western world.

Arthur (00:17:19):

But after this,

Arthur (00:17:21):

after what happened in Gaza,

Arthur (00:17:23):

after seeing what happened to 70,000 Arabs and,

Arthur (00:17:26):

of course,

Arthur (00:17:27):

also the horrible attack on Israel,

Arthur (00:17:28):

which in no way justifies what happened later,

Arthur (00:17:31):

after seeing how they brought an al-Qaeda leader to power in Syria,

Arthur (00:17:35):

I'm sorry,

Arthur (00:17:36):

I no longer know what is right and what is left.

Arthur (00:17:39):

I just don't I don't know what world we live in.

Arthur (00:17:41):

This is this is unimaginable.

Arthur (00:17:43):

This is why I'm saying I miss the 80s.

Arthur (00:17:45):

I miss the 90s when we had statesmen who had class and wisdom,

Arthur (00:17:49):

because right now we're run by by some kind of like showman,

Arthur (00:17:53):

showman. It's like a show and they're fanatics.

Arthur (00:17:55):

They're just fanatics.

Arthur (00:17:56):

There's no reason anymore.

Arthur (00:17:58):

And sadly, sadly, the West has totally discredited itself.

Hovik (00:18:02):

Can I just,

Hovik (00:18:04):

you know, we were thinking before the show,

Hovik (00:18:06):

what will be one realistic call to action or outcome we'd like to see?

Hovik (00:18:10):

And the only thing that I know, the only thing that I have is this microphone.

Hovik (00:18:14):

The only thing that we have is this,

Hovik (00:18:16):

you know,

Hovik (00:18:17):

struggling YouTube channel that we're trying to get off the ground.

Hovik (00:18:20):

So, you know, using this tool, I would like to call anyone.

Hovik (00:18:27):

If you're in the media, if you're a

Hovik (00:18:32):

I'm not even talking about mainstream media because,

Hovik (00:18:35):

you know,

Hovik (00:18:36):

editorial control there is probably nowadays,

Hovik (00:18:39):

you know, completely like Pravda.

Hovik (00:18:41):

But if you're an independent reporter...

Hovik (00:18:43):

If you're in the media and you have the ability to pitch a story to do,

Hovik (00:18:48):

or maybe even just go to Armenia yourself,

Hovik (00:18:51):

you should be seriously considering this.

Hovik (00:18:53):

So I would like to call on all the journalists,

Hovik (00:18:58):

all the people who work in the media,

Hovik (00:19:00):

or if you know someone who works in the media,

Hovik (00:19:02):

please call them and ask them why they're not on a flight to Armenia right now.

Hovik (00:19:07):

to cover this abhorrent attack on free media.

Hovik (00:19:11):

The fact that, you know, I'm in Paris right now, but I'll be, you know, in Armenia.

Hovik (00:19:19):

I was thinking of not even saying, you know, I'll be there Monday.

Hovik (00:19:22):

So, Asped, if I'm not on the show by Monday evening, then, you know...

Hovik (00:19:28):

Unfortunately, I probably will also be one of the, you know, I'll be with Narek and Vasgem.

Hovik (00:19:34):

But,

Hovik (00:19:36):

you know,

Hovik (00:19:37):

in any case,

Hovik (00:19:39):

you know, just, you know,

Hovik (00:19:41):

I'll use whatever resources I have to,

Hovik (00:19:44):

you know,

Hovik (00:19:45):

ask our listeners to try to convince your journalist friends,

Hovik (00:19:49):

try to, you know,

Hovik (00:19:50):

pitch an idea to them to go to Armenia and write about these attacks on free media.

Hovik (00:19:56):

Many times the situation in politics right now is very polarized and it's very easy

Hovik (00:20:01):

to get caught up in this Ukraine versus Russia thing.

Hovik (00:20:05):

But this is very simple.

Hovik (00:20:07):

It's an easy and shut case.

Hovik (00:20:08):

I mean, you can see what happened almost live on video.

Hovik (00:20:12):

So I don't see why a reasonable person would not be convinced to do this,

Hovik (00:20:19):

to go on a plane to Armenia and cover this and talk to people there.

Arthur (00:20:24):

You know, when there were plenty of journalists in Armenia during the quote unquote Velvet

Arthur (00:20:28):

Revolution in 2018,

Arthur (00:20:31):

when it was very convenient to come to Armenia because it was an anti-Russian

Arthur (00:20:35):

revolt. And of course, the West was just exhilarated with it.

Arthur (00:20:38):

So they sent every little channel they had.

Arthur (00:20:41):

I've seen them. There were like 20 or 30 of them there covering the so-called Velvet Revolution.

Arthur (00:20:46):

of this guy who promised us democracy,

Arthur (00:20:48):

who said we're going to love and respect all Armenians and that we had three

Arthur (00:20:52):

million prime ministers.

Arthur (00:20:54):

And now he has become Saddam Hussein, Saddam Hussein of Armenia.

Arthur (00:20:58):

And you are directly supporting him.

Arthur (00:21:00):

How nauseating.

Hovik (00:21:02):

Yeah, that's a message that we should definitely highlight.

Asbed (00:21:06):

Okay, Arthur, thank you for jumping on the show with us at the drop of a hat.

Asbed (00:21:11):

We'll talk to you very soon.

Asbed (00:21:13):

And let's hope this thing blows over quickly.

Hovik (00:21:15):

I think a better hope would be that we continue fighting and struggling.

Hovik (00:21:19):

Because to be honest,

Hovik (00:21:21):

you know, our brethren in Armenia,

Hovik (00:21:22):

our brethren in Artsakh suffered some of the worst fates.

Hovik (00:21:26):

And the least we can do is, you know, use our freedom while we have it.

Hovik (00:21:30):

That's a given, Hovik.

Hovik (00:21:31):

We're going to continue struggling.

Arthur (00:21:33):

Can I ask a question?

Arthur (00:21:34):

Can I have just one question?

Asbed (00:21:36):

Sure.

Arthur (00:21:37):

Did anyone in the West ever at any point explain why the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo

Arthur (00:21:45):

was recognized and led to the independence of Kosovo and why the ethnic cleansing

Arthur (00:21:49):

of Armenians was completely forgotten and there were no consequences for it?

Asbed (00:21:54):

Absolutely not.

Arthur (00:21:54):

Any explanation?

Asbed (00:21:55):

And I paid attention to that.

Asbed (00:21:57):

And the only explanation that you could hear them say,

Asbed (00:21:59):

it's like,

Asbed (00:22:00):

oh, there are different situations.

Arthur (00:22:01):

Of course they are different because your interests are different.

Arthur (00:22:04):

Of course.

Arthur (00:22:05):

That's the only reason.

Arthur (00:22:07):

Excuse me, just shut up.

Arthur (00:22:08):

Just shut up and don't ever talk to us about democracy and human rights and international law.

Arthur (00:22:13):

Because you're hypocrites,

Arthur (00:22:15):

you're liars,

Arthur (00:22:16):

and you have totally lost all respect and all credibility.

Arthur (00:22:19):

And the only hope we have now is there's going to be an alternative center of power

Arthur (00:22:23):

somewhere between China and India,

Arthur (00:22:24):

God knows where,

Arthur (00:22:25):

so that this reign of hypocrisy and terror is going to end.

Asbed (00:22:29):

Thank you, Arthur.

Arthur (00:22:29):

Definitely.

Arthur (00:22:30):

Thank you.

Hovik (00:22:31):

And once again,

Hovik (00:22:32):

I would like to call on all people working in the media,

Hovik (00:22:35):

or if you know someone who works in the media,

Hovik (00:22:37):

to please let this news come out and convince them to come and cover this event in

Hovik (00:22:44):

Armenia.

Asbed (00:22:44):

That's our show today.

Asbed (00:22:45):

This episode was recorded on November 14, 2025.

Asbed (00:22:49):

We've been talking with Dr.

Asbed (00:22:51):

Arthur Hachigyan,

Asbed (00:22:52):

who is an international relations expert from Stanford University.

Asbed (00:22:56):

His specialization is in intervention.

Hovik (00:22:59):

Thank you, folks, for listening.

Hovik (00:23:01):

We really want to underscore that despite all of our own schedules, this is a

Hovik (00:23:06):

It's paramount that we get this message across.

Hovik (00:23:08):

So if you really want to help us get this content in front of people who need to

Hovik (00:23:14):

see it,

Hovik (00:23:15):

please consider liking,

Hovik (00:23:16):

commenting,

Hovik (00:23:17):

and sharing our podcast with your friends.

Hovik (00:23:19):

And as we said before,

Hovik (00:23:21):

if you know anyone in the media,

Hovik (00:23:22):

make sure that they are considering reporting on this issue in Armenia.

Hovik (00:23:28):

And, you know, we're seeing democracy basically destroyed very rapidly in Armenia.

Hovik (00:23:33):

So whatever is left of it,

Hovik (00:23:35):

you know, if you want a democratic Armenia,

Hovik (00:23:38):

then it's upon you to also do your share and help us get the message across.

Asbed (00:23:43):

Yeah,

Asbed (00:23:44):

I want to emphasize those two aspects of supporting us,

Asbed (00:23:47):

basically SHARING with your friends.

Asbed (00:23:50):

These shows, SHARE them,

Asbed (00:23:51):

put them in front of their eyes,

Asbed (00:23:52):

and also make sure that you are SUBSCRIBED to our channel because that's going to

Asbed (00:23:55):

help.

Asbed (00:23:57):

That's it for now.

Asbed (00:23:58):

Thank you for listening and trusting us with your support.

Asbed (00:24:02):

We're going to try and jump into these shows as often as possible to make sure that

Asbed (00:24:06):

we are updating you on these very critical moments in Armenia's democracy.

Asbed (00:24:12):

Bye-bye.

Hovik (00:24:13):

Bye-bye.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Arthur Khachikyan

Guest

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