Armenian News Network - Groong: Week In Review Podcast

Arthur Khachikyan - OSCE MG Dissolved, Libaridian on Submission, New Constitution, Armenian Church, Prayer Breakfast, Border Commish | Ep 493, Nov 30, 2025

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Groong Week in Review - November 30, 2025


Topics

  • OSCE MG Dissolved
  • Libaridian on Submitting to Turkey and Azerbaijan
  • New Constitution to be Drafted by March 2026
  • Archbishops, Letters, Attacks on the Church
  • Border Commissions Meet in Baku
  • Comments from Jacob Pursley


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Hosts


Episode 493 | Recorded: December 2, 2025

https://podcasts.groong.org/493


Subscribe and follow us everywhere you are: linktr.ee/groong

Asbed (00:00:04):

Hello everyone,

Asbed (00:00:05):

you are listening to the Armenian News Network Groong Week in Review for November

Asbed (00:00:08):

30th,

Asbed (00:00:10):

2025.

Asbed (00:00:11):

Today we're recording on December 2nd, a couple of days late.

Asbed (00:00:14):

and we're talking with Dr.

Asbed (00:00:15):

Arthur Khachikyan,

Asbed (00:00:16):

an international relations expert from Stanford University.

Asbed (00:00:20):

Hello Arthur, how are you doing?

Asbed (00:00:22):

Hello,

Arthur (00:00:23):

except I no longer know what an expert in international relations is and whether

Arthur (00:00:28):

there is such a thing,

Arthur (00:00:29):

but yes.

Asbed (00:00:30):

Yeah, it's a little tough when nobody listens, right?

Arthur (00:00:33):

Yeah,

Arthur (00:00:34):

when you have the leaders of the world just repeat the same keywords and tirades

Arthur (00:00:40):

and discourses without really understanding anything,

Arthur (00:00:43):

yeah, it's hard to know what it means.

Asbed (00:00:45):

Well, folks, yesterday was December 1st, and as scheduled, or maybe I should say as

Asbed (00:00:53):

conceded,

Asbed (00:00:54):

the OSCE dissolved the Minsk Group,

Asbed (00:00:56):

which was tasked with resolving the international cause for Artsakh's

Asbed (00:01:01):

self-determination.

Asbed (00:01:02):

So we start the show with another victory for Ilham Aliyev and another crushing

Asbed (00:01:07):

defeat for Pashinyan and another unilateral concession by Armenia.

Asbed (00:01:11):

And sadly, there's no end in sight as far as I can tell.

Asbed (00:01:14):

Now,

Asbed (00:01:15):

with Artsakh Armenians ethnically cleansed from their homeland,

Asbed (00:01:19):

the OSCE Minsk group dissolved,

Asbed (00:01:21):

and Europe and the West apparently just applauding Azerbaijan's atrocities with the

Asbed (00:01:27):

hope that it can be harnessed as an anti-Russian ally and potential.

Asbed (00:01:32):

Where does this leave the cause of Artsakh on the international stage?

Arthur (00:01:36):

Right.

Arthur (00:01:37):

Well, yes, you're right.

Arthur (00:01:38):

It's another victory for Aliyev.

Arthur (00:01:40):

Well, you know, I have to give it to him.

Arthur (00:01:42):

He's been a very rational, calculating, strong leader.

Arthur (00:01:46):

Azerbaijan does not have an army of traitors sponsored by Western grants like we do.

Arthur (00:01:53):

They don't have the so-called civil society that declares their own people the

Arthur (00:01:58):

source of all evil.

Arthur (00:02:00):

No Azeri leader has ever said we had to cut off Karabakh because it was a rope tied

Arthur (00:02:05):

around our neck like our leader did.

Arthur (00:02:08):

No Azeri journalist on H1,

Arthur (00:02:12):

on their first channel,

Arthur (00:02:14):

suggested that it was a good thing to get rid of their compatriots and to give in

Arthur (00:02:21):

to all the demands.

Arthur (00:02:22):

I mean, you've got to give it to them.

Arthur (00:02:23):

They're a lot smarter.

Arthur (00:02:25):

They have more pride, more patriotic.

Arthur (00:02:29):

Sadly, we got this.

Arthur (00:02:31):

Now, I have some news for you.

Arthur (00:02:33):

There's a lot more bad news coming.

Arthur (00:02:35):

We'll talk about the planned dissolution of the Armenian church.

Arthur (00:02:39):

I am receiving some very consistent signals that there is a plan to create a schism

Arthur (00:02:45):

in the Armenian church and break off the different branches,

Arthur (00:02:50):

create little bishoprics,

Arthur (00:02:53):

I think is the name. I'm terrible with religious or patriarchy or whatever.

Arthur (00:02:57):

Yeah,

Arthur (00:02:58):

just divide them in little parts and break them down and the Armenian church will

Arthur (00:03:02):

have to submit and some of its property will be seized and then Armenians will have

Arthur (00:03:09):

to be dominated by another separate church or their own church dominated by the

Arthur (00:03:14):

foreign forces and then forced out of Jerusalem and gradually out of the Middle

Arthur (00:03:19):

East.

Arthur (00:03:20):

So these are some of the plans that we're hearing about.

Arthur (00:03:22):

I mean, normally I would say that this is just a fantasy,

Arthur (00:03:25):

but sadly,

Arthur (00:03:26):

the facts that we're observing are very consistent with this.

Arthur (00:03:30):

So let me know when you want me to talk about it.

Arthur (00:03:32):

As far as the Minsk Group is concerned,

Arthur (00:03:35):

What's really amazing is that a part of our society,

Arthur (00:03:39):

the part that thinks that having a cappuccino,

Arthur (00:03:43):

macchiato,

Arthur (00:03:44):

watching Netflix and posting their duck faces on Instagram and traveling to Milan

Arthur (00:03:50):

to buy jeans,

Arthur (00:03:52):

is worth it they convinced it they they managed to convince a part of our society

Arthur (00:03:58):

that western comfort jeans chewing gum and cappuccino and trips abroad and the

Arthur (00:04:04):

freedom to pretend that you are a western person when you walk in the middle of the

Arthur (00:04:08):

street in Iran that is a worthy objective that was that justifies the surrender of

Arthur (00:04:15):

Karabakh and turning 120 000 people into refugees giving up our churches

Arthur (00:04:20):

forsaking our own compatriots,

Arthur (00:04:24):

stepping over 5,000 lives of our boys that were sacrificed in this war,

Arthur (00:04:30):

forgetting all of it just for the sake of Western comfort.

Hovik (00:04:33):

And tens of thousands of lives also in the previous wars and all of the sacrifices

Hovik (00:04:38):

that Armenians collectively have made.

Arthur (00:04:41):

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Arthur (00:04:43):

Altogether, 17,000. Yeah.

Arthur (00:04:46):

And who convinced us that this was a worthy cause?

Arthur (00:04:50):

That it's basically, I don't like using oncological terminology.

Arthur (00:04:54):

I'm superstitious.

Arthur (00:04:55):

But it's the metastasis.

Arthur (00:04:57):

It's like the, I don't know what the medical term is.

Arthur (00:04:59):

It's when cancer spreads.

Arthur (00:05:01):

It's a very, very sad part, you know, stage of this disease.

Arthur (00:05:06):

It spread all over our society.

Arthur (00:05:08):

And it started with those people who tempted us.

Arthur (00:05:11):

with western comfort like i said who told us that real democracy is in the west and

Arthur (00:05:17):

anything in the east or north of Armenia is is a dictatorship authoritarianism if

Arthur (00:05:23):

you want the good life you got to get rid of Russia to get get a Russia get rid of

Arthur (00:05:26):

Russia you have to get rid of Karabakh it's a very logical argument

Arthur (00:05:30):

Just, you know, give up your churches,

Arthur (00:05:31):

give up your people,

Arthur (00:05:33):

forget the genocide,

Arthur (00:05:34):

give up Mount Ararat,

Arthur (00:05:35):

and then you'll have a good,

Arthur (00:05:37):

comfortable life. And sadly,

Arthur (00:05:38):

very sadly,

Arthur (00:05:39):

a part of the diaspora played a very negative role in this,

Arthur (00:05:44):

because this blind subservience to the West...

Arthur (00:05:49):

This naive belief that everything in the West is perfect and everything in the

Arthur (00:05:53):

North and East is bad.

Arthur (00:05:56):

And believe me, I'm a very Western person and I love the West,

Arthur (00:05:59):

but I am more realistic knowing that there are some good things and there are some

Arthur (00:06:02):

not so good things.

Arthur (00:06:03):

But this propaganda was going on for years.

Arthur (00:06:07):

It's the influence of the diaspora.

Arthur (00:06:09):

It's the influence of all these foreign-funded journalists and the civil society.

Arthur (00:06:14):

As I speak right now, tonight, there will be comments posted.

Arthur (00:06:18):

Actually,

Arthur (00:06:19):

they will probably be posted right now on your channel accusing all of us of being

Arthur (00:06:23):

Russian spies,

Arthur (00:06:24):

telling us that one guy even wrote,

Arthur (00:06:27):

yes, giving up Karabakh,

Arthur (00:06:28):

giving up Karabakh was worthy because Armenia could not develop otherwise.

Arthur (00:06:32):

You're all Russian agents.

Arthur (00:06:34):

We will be part of Europe.

Arthur (00:06:35):

Nobody, by the way, even wants us to be part of Europe.

Arthur (00:06:37):

There was just a report that came out in a European research center that didn't

Arthur (00:06:41):

mention anything about Armenia becoming part of Europe.

Arthur (00:06:43):

So this didn't happen overnight.

Arthur (00:06:46):

Our society was rotting from within.

Arthur (00:06:49):

And this rot came with these people who sold out.

Arthur (00:06:54):

And these are the consequences.

Arthur (00:06:55):

But then whenever you want, we can talk about the church.

Hovik (00:06:58):

Arthur, I have a comment about the evangelical church, and we'll talk more about it.

Hovik (00:07:04):

We don't want to unnecessarily accuse others, but when we see a whole bunch of

Hovik (00:07:15):

you know,

Hovik (00:07:16):

evangelical influencers,

Hovik (00:07:19):

praising Pashinyan,

Hovik (00:07:20):

you know,

Hovik (00:07:21):

without a single mention that our church is under constant attack.

Hovik (00:07:25):

And not just evangelicals, you know, when we see the Catholic Pope going to

Hovik (00:07:30):

Turkey and praising Turkey in the highest form possible,

Hovik (00:07:36):

you know, I think that is a defense mechanism.

Hovik (00:07:39):

So,

Hovik (00:07:40):

you know,

Hovik (00:07:41):

it's,

Hovik (00:07:42):

you know, we would expect that any friend of Armenia,

Hovik (00:07:44):

and I'm sure that many evangelicals consider themselves friend of Armenia,

Hovik (00:07:49):

should support our church,

Hovik (00:07:51):

but that is,

Hovik (00:07:54):

you know, that is just my commentary.

Hovik (00:07:56):

And we'll,

Hovik (00:07:57):

We had recently an episode on the so-called prayer breakfast in Armenia,

Hovik (00:08:02):

where it was essentially a staged...

Hovik (00:08:07):

show to placate Pashinyan and to whitewash.

Hovik (00:08:12):

And essentially,

Hovik (00:08:13):

I think Robert Amsterdam used "reputation laundering" to improve Pashinyan's

Hovik (00:08:17):

reputation while he's taking over Armenian churches.

Hovik (00:08:21):

But, you know, I had to jump on this commentary, but we have a lot to cover.

Hovik (00:08:26):

So if you don't mind, let me talk about the next item on our agenda, Arthur.

Hovik (00:08:31):

So Turkey's foreign minister, Hakan Fidan,

Hovik (00:08:35):

said on November 19,

Hovik (00:08:37):

that's about a few weeks ago,

Hovik (00:08:38):

that normalization with Armenia still depends on two preconditions,

Hovik (00:08:43):

changing Armenia's constitution and opening the so-called Zangezur Corridor.

Hovik (00:08:49):

I'm using his term, so please don't accuse us of using Zangezur Corridor.

Hovik (00:08:53):

That is the term that Turks and Azeris use.

Hovik (00:08:57):

So this comes despite

Hovik (00:09:00):

many Armenian concessions,

Hovik (00:09:02):

including removing Mount Arad from the border stamps,

Hovik (00:09:05):

agreeing to a partial border opening.

Hovik (00:09:10):

That agreement was, I think, reached or announced sometime in 2022.

Hovik (00:09:13):

But to this day, the border remains closed.

Hovik (00:09:17):

And Turkey's foreign minister basically said that it will remain closed until you

Hovik (00:09:21):

change your constitution and open the so-called Zangezur Corridor.

Hovik (00:09:26):

So Armenian public TV,

Hovik (00:09:29):

all the media outlets controlled by Pashinyan,

Hovik (00:09:32):

are in a relentless campaign to brainwash Armenian citizenry,

Hovik (00:09:38):

in my opinion.

Hovik (00:09:39):

The latest addition to that brainwashing campaign was an interview

Hovik (00:09:45):

with Jirair Libaridian, once a friend of Levon Ter-Petrosyan, an advisor to him.

Hovik (00:09:53):

He has, I think, disowned Ter-Petrosyan as well.

Hovik (00:09:56):

And Jirair Libaridian appeared on Armenian public television and told us that

Hovik (00:10:02):

Armenia must drop its illusions,

Hovik (00:10:05):

old illusions,

Hovik (00:10:06):

and face its neighbors as they are.

Hovik (00:10:08):

Seems like a reasonable argument, but he continues.

Hovik (00:10:11):

He says, peace with Azerbaijan requires

Hovik (00:10:14):

acceptance of the defeat,

Hovik (00:10:16):

and direct talks with Turkey and Azerbaijan,

Hovik (00:10:19):

and letting go of self-made narratives that ignore Baku's views.

Hovik (00:10:25):

He also dismissed claims that Turkey seeks to erase Armenia.

Hovik (00:10:29):

saying that there is no evidence to support it.

Hovik (00:10:31):

He added that conditions for normalization with Turkey are better than they have

Hovik (00:10:35):

ever been in decades.

Hovik (00:10:37):

For him, the key question is whether Armenia chooses to,

Hovik (00:10:40):

and I'm quoting,

Hovik (00:10:41):

to belong to its own region or keeps relying on distant powers.

Hovik (00:10:47):

So relying on distant powers,

Hovik (00:10:48):

does Libaridian consider the U.S.,

Hovik (00:10:51):

which is funding the so-called Zangezur Corridor,

Hovik (00:10:54):

or the EU,

Hovik (00:10:55):

which is placating Pashinyan and promising membership while not delivering on it,

Hovik (00:11:00):

Does Librarian consider the EU or the US closer to Armenia than Russia,

Hovik (00:11:06):

Iran,

Hovik (00:11:07):

and even Turkey itself?

Arthur (00:11:08):

I don't know much about this person.

Arthur (00:11:10):

I'm not even interested.

Arthur (00:11:11):

Anybody who goes on H1,

Arthur (00:11:12):

the first channel to do this propaganda show,

Arthur (00:11:15):

I don't really have a lot of respect.

Arthur (00:11:17):

All of us want peace with Turkey.

Arthur (00:11:20):

All of Armenia's presidents wanted to have peace with Turkey.

Arthur (00:11:23):

This is nothing new.

Arthur (00:11:25):

Nobody was proposing to try to invade Turkey and take back historical Armenia.

Arthur (00:11:30):

I don't think anyone, for any reason, proposed to do that.

Arthur (00:11:34):

We all want peace and reconciliation.

Arthur (00:11:36):

So let's not try to manipulate this issue.

Arthur (00:11:39):

Now, does it have to be achieved at the expense of total...

Arthur (00:11:44):

and complete capitulation?

Arthur (00:11:46):

No.

Arthur (00:11:47):

Did this leader have a chance to find a compromise solution with Azerbaijan and

Arthur (00:11:52):

normalize relations with Turkey?

Arthur (00:11:54):

Yes, he did. He had two years from 2018 to 2020.

Arthur (00:11:59):

There were two years.

Arthur (00:12:00):

He could have used that time to negotiate a compromise solution.

Arthur (00:12:04):

What did he do instead?

Arthur (00:12:06):

He provoked Aliyev.

Arthur (00:12:07):

He declared that Artsakh is Armenia, period.

Arthur (00:12:10):

He said that the war is our new Sartarapat, a war for our survival.

Arthur (00:12:15):

He provoked Turkey by talking about some, you know, treaties that were concluded 100 years ago.

Arthur (00:12:21):

He ignored all the warnings that came from Turkey,

Arthur (00:12:25):

from Azerbaijan,

Arthur (00:12:26):

from Russia that a war is coming.

Arthur (00:12:27):

He did not stop the war.

Arthur (00:12:29):

He mobilized our volunteers and half mobilized our army.

Arthur (00:12:33):

He, well, you know what happened?

Arthur (00:12:34):

I don't need to tell you.

Arthur (00:12:35):

Then he went and signed a paper giving up Karabakh.

Arthur (00:12:38):

So he did everything to destroy Armenia and he stayed in power.

Arthur (00:12:44):

We would have been happy.

Arthur (00:12:45):

I would have been happy too.

Arthur (00:12:47):

And I was hoping that

Arthur (00:12:49):

He would find some kind of a solution and normalize relations with the neighbors.

Arthur (00:12:52):

The problem is he doesn't know how to do it.

Arthur (00:12:54):

He brought us to total defeat.

Arthur (00:12:56):

Now,

Arthur (00:12:57):

about what Turkey will or will not do,

Arthur (00:12:59):

well,

Arthur (00:13:00):

this is very similar to what Armenians believed in 1918,

Arthur (00:13:03):

1920.

Arthur (00:13:05):

Well, when they thought that once Turkey was done killing all Ottoman Armenians or

Arthur (00:13:09):

Western Armenians,

Arthur (00:13:10):

she will not repeat the same in Eastern Armenia.

Arthur (00:13:13):

Well, they were very, very surprised, weren't they?

Arthur (00:13:15):

When Turkey took over Kars and they ran away from there.

Arthur (00:13:19):

And then Turkey said that the Turkish army stopped and they concluded a ceasefire.

Arthur (00:13:24):

And then it crossed the border one more time, this time seizing Alexandropol, today's Gyumri.

Arthur (00:13:29):

And then the massacres of Eastern Armenians began near Gyumri.

Arthur (00:13:33):

There is still a canyon.

Arthur (00:13:34):

That's called the Canyon of Massacres, where you can still find bones.

Arthur (00:13:39):

So this Turkish strategy didn't just limit itself to Western Armenians.

Arthur (00:13:46):

It continued in Kilikia, which is actually an interesting argument.

Arthur (00:13:49):

The justification for killing Western Armenians is that they collaborated with the enemy.

Arthur (00:13:56):

They helped Russians.

Arthur (00:13:57):

They were traitors.

Arthur (00:13:58):

There's a word collusion, right?

Arthur (00:14:00):

They basically helped the Russians, colluded with the enemy.

Arthur (00:14:03):

I'm not sure what, I can't remember the verb.

Arthur (00:14:06):

So why did the Kilikian Armenians face the same fate?

Arthur (00:14:10):

The war was over.

Arthur (00:14:12):

World War I ended by the time that they were massacred.

Arthur (00:14:15):

Some of them the second time because they came back to that region trusting France.

Arthur (00:14:19):

Why were Eastern Armenians

Arthur (00:14:21):

massacred once Turkey had a chance to do it.

Arthur (00:14:24):

Why did the Nahichevan Armenians disappear in peacetime while part of the Soviet Union?

Arthur (00:14:30):

They weren't killed, but they were encouraged to migrate.

Arthur (00:14:33):

And what happened to Karabakh?

Arthur (00:14:35):

Why was there no proposal of some kind of a cultural autonomy?

Arthur (00:14:39):

Well,

Arthur (00:14:40):

there was, to be fair,

Arthur (00:14:41):

in the beginning,

Arthur (00:14:42):

but after the war,

Arthur (00:14:43):

why wasn't Azerbaijan willing to at least let these people come back?

Arthur (00:14:47):

The policy is the same.

Arthur (00:14:49):

It's our problem that we don't see it.

Arthur (00:14:51):

And why would Turkey tolerate Armenian statehood by a group of 3 million people

Arthur (00:14:56):

when it's denying statehood to 15 million or 20 million Turkish Kurds?

Arthur (00:15:02):

Why would Turkey do that?

Arthur (00:15:03):

Do you not see a pattern here?

Arthur (00:15:06):

Why would Turkey not even acknowledge that killing Western Armenians was wrong?

Arthur (00:15:10):

We're not talking about compensation.

Arthur (00:15:12):

We're just talking about acknowledging that it was wrong.

Arthur (00:15:15):

Wouldn't that not be a good step to establish some kind of a peaceful process?

Arthur (00:15:20):

This is not peace.

Arthur (00:15:21):

This is a catastrophic capitulation.

Arthur (00:15:25):

And sadly, we have people like this

Arthur (00:15:29):

This propaganda coming from people like this,

Arthur (00:15:32):

and they're telling us the best way to live for Armenia is to put our head in the

Arthur (00:15:36):

tiger's mouth,

Arthur (00:15:37):

like Winston Churchill said at the time.

Arthur (00:15:39):

It's just a disgrace that we would tolerate this.

Arthur (00:15:43):

And it is going on all the,

Arthur (00:15:44):

as you said,

Arthur (00:15:45):

Pashinyan has a very,

Arthur (00:15:46):

I can't believe I said his last name.

Arthur (00:15:48):

This person has a very powerful propaganda machine.

Arthur (00:15:52):

There are dozens and dozens of them, and they play in unison.

Arthur (00:15:55):

They have a team.

Arthur (00:15:56):

It's like volleyball.

Arthur (00:15:57):

One of them sets the ball, and everybody else spikes on it.

Arthur (00:16:00):

So they would release some bit of information.

Arthur (00:16:03):

It's immediately spread through WhatsApp groups and text groups,

Arthur (00:16:07):

and all of them jump on it,

Arthur (00:16:08):

and they start commenting.

Arthur (00:16:10):

It's a very powerful propaganda machine.

Arthur (00:16:12):

It's quite shameful that we tolerate it,

Arthur (00:16:14):

and it's very shameful that even in the diaspora,

Arthur (00:16:17):

there are some people who tolerate it.

Arthur (00:16:18):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:16:20):

Well,

Hovik (00:16:21):

there's some more talking points,

Hovik (00:16:22):

but one of the comments that he made during that interview,

Hovik (00:16:26):

you know,

Hovik (00:16:27):

he said that there is,

Hovik (00:16:29):

you know,

Hovik (00:16:30):

Turkey does not intend to erase Armenia.

Hovik (00:16:33):

So let's examine that statement at face value.

Hovik (00:16:37):

He said, you know, for instance, has a single Turkish soldier entered Armenia?

Hovik (00:16:42):

How would you address that?

Arthur (00:16:44):

I don't think we should even go through this because it's too painful that someone

Arthur (00:16:49):

who was an advisor to our president would say such a thing.

Arthur (00:16:53):

The whole war in Karabakh was under Turkish command.

Arthur (00:16:56):

They were bragging about it.

Arthur (00:16:59):

They sent Mujahideens to fight our 18-year-old boys.

Arthur (00:17:03):

Does this person have any dignity?

Arthur (00:17:06):

Does he have any dignity?

Arthur (00:17:07):

Does he have any...

Arthur (00:17:09):

conscience how can he speak about this 5 000 boys were killed by by an army of

Arthur (00:17:15):

mercenaries and Azeris and some other people under Turkish command what is he

Arthur (00:17:20):

talking about and if turkey has no genocidal intentions why wouldn't it at least

Arthur (00:17:25):

acknowledge it doesn't even have to call it genocide why would it not even

Arthur (00:17:29):

acknowledge that killing Armenians was wrong

Hovik (00:17:32):

Can I also just add that over history,

Hovik (00:17:36):

we have the memoirs of the Greek ambassador to Armenia,

Hovik (00:17:41):

I believe,

Hovik (00:17:42):

who wrote in his book that in the,

Hovik (00:17:45):

I believe, 1995,

Hovik (00:17:47):

Turkey actually was preparing to enter Armenia,

Hovik (00:17:51):

and it was just the threat of the Russian general who said that it would start

Hovik (00:18:00):

World War III that prevented that from happening.

Hovik (00:18:05):

And another point is, has anyone heard of the Russian base in Yomri?

Hovik (00:18:11):

Maybe that was one contributing factor that Turkey has not entered Armenia so far.

Arthur (00:18:17):

That was 1992, you have a good memory, and this is a good argument.

Arthur (00:18:22):

In 1992, Turkey conducted military exercises near the Armenian border.

Arthur (00:18:27):

I even remember what they were called,

Arthur (00:18:28):

white spirit,

Arthur (00:18:30):

because I was warned by my American colleague at Stanford,

Arthur (00:18:33):

my professor,

Arthur (00:18:34):

that we should be very worried.

Arthur (00:18:37):

And yes, Marshal Shaposhnikov said that they would start World War III if they did that.

Arthur (00:18:43):

So it's a very good point.

Arthur (00:18:44):

They were going to cross the border.

Arthur (00:18:46):

And this time they didn't cross the border.

Arthur (00:18:49):

They went around the border and killed our boys and ethnically cleansed Karabakh,

Arthur (00:18:53):

which Europe and the West refused to acknowledge,

Arthur (00:18:56):

by the way.

Arthur (00:18:57):

So we see the evidence right here.

Arthur (00:18:59):

It's staring us in the face.

Arthur (00:19:01):

It is extremely shameful that this person would...

Arthur (00:19:05):

would not have even any dignity,

Arthur (00:19:08):

any human dignity to say such a thing on our official television channel,

Arthur (00:19:12):

the only channel that's watched all over Armenia.

Arthur (00:19:16):

It's quite shameful.

Arthur (00:19:17):

And yes, I do remember the exercises.

Arthur (00:19:20):

Turgut Ozzal said that it's time to show Armenia our teeth.

Arthur (00:19:26):

No, but really, I mean, look at how they treat the Kurds.

Arthur (00:19:31):

Look at how they treated all the other minorities.

Arthur (00:19:34):

It's Turkish nationalism.

Arthur (00:19:35):

I'm not saying all of them are like that.

Arthur (00:19:37):

No, of course not.

Arthur (00:19:38):

But Turkish nationalism,

Arthur (00:19:40):

extremely dangerous,

Arthur (00:19:42):

because to keep their...

Arthur (00:19:43):

Some of them think that to keep their country together,

Arthur (00:19:47):

they have to get rid of all separatists and terrorists.

Arthur (00:19:49):

And anybody who...

Arthur (00:19:51):

will claim any rights on Turkish territory is subject to scrutiny.

Arthur (00:19:57):

I mean,

Arthur (00:19:58):

I don't understand how somebody who was an advisor to our president would say such

Arthur (00:20:04):

a thing.

Arthur (00:20:05):

Again, nobody here is saying that we should perpetually live in hatred.

Arthur (00:20:09):

No, no one says that.

Arthur (00:20:11):

But there should be some dignified, respectful conversation about what happened in the past.

Arthur (00:20:16):

And the best way to prove your peaceful intentions

Arthur (00:20:19):

would have been not to demand that Armenia give up the memory of genocide or its

Arthur (00:20:24):

historical homeland.

Arthur (00:20:25):

Because we have models like this.

Arthur (00:20:27):

Germany and Israel have a very good understanding about what happened.

Arthur (00:20:32):

China, Korea, and Japan have a good understanding about what happened historically.

Arthur (00:20:36):

The French and the Germans, it's a different situation.

Arthur (00:20:38):

But they do have an understanding about the past.

Arthur (00:20:41):

There is a way to do this.

Arthur (00:20:43):

And even actually the current leader of Turkey,

Arthur (00:20:48):

Erdogan, he was very,

Arthur (00:20:49):

very close to making a very compassionate statement about this.

Arthur (00:20:55):

Many years ago, he said, you know, we want to express our compassion to our Armenian brothers.

Arthur (00:21:00):

I was very surprised.

Arthur (00:21:02):

So there was some kind of a movement towards mutual understanding.

Arthur (00:21:06):

But you do this based on mutual respect, on humanity.

Arthur (00:21:09):

That's right. On compassion.

Arthur (00:21:10):

You don't do this...

Asbed (00:21:11):

He said that back when Armenia was a respectable country.

Arthur (00:21:15):

Well, yes, we are not anymore.

Arthur (00:21:17):

And the Turkish elites, they're smart.

Arthur (00:21:23):

It's a country that has a very long and glorious military history.

Arthur (00:21:28):

They respect power.

Arthur (00:21:30):

And we should actually learn from them.

Arthur (00:21:32):

They respect power.

Arthur (00:21:33):

They're realists.

Arthur (00:21:34):

When they don't respect you, what incentive do they have to make peace with you or...

Asbed (00:21:39):

Yeah.

Asbed (00:21:40):

Well, earlier,

Asbed (00:21:41):

Hovig, you mentioned that there were two reasons that Hakan Fidan gave,

Asbed (00:21:46):

and that was the Zangezur Corridor.

Asbed (00:21:47):

And the other one was, of course, changing the Armenian constitution.

Asbed (00:21:50):

Those are requirements.

Asbed (00:21:52):

And like clockwork, of course, the response came.

Asbed (00:21:55):

Srbuhi Galyan,

Asbed (00:21:56):

who acts as Pashinyan's minister of justice,

Asbed (00:21:59):

has promised that the Aliyev constitution for Armenia will be ready by March 2026.

Asbed (00:22:05):

Per Azeri demands,

Asbed (00:22:06):

the constitution must remove all references to the 1990 Declaration of

Asbed (00:22:10):

Independence,

Asbed (00:22:11):

which also cites the unification of Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast.

Asbed (00:22:18):

Arthur, what's the hurry here?

Asbed (00:22:19):

Why do we need to finish this by March 2026?

Asbed (00:22:23):

Because as far as I know,

Asbed (00:22:24):

Pashinyan had said that we can't take up a referendum until after the June 2026

Asbed (00:22:29):

parliamentary elections.

Arthur (00:22:31):

These are just details.

Arthur (00:22:33):

I don't even know why we keep discussing the same thing over and over again.

Arthur (00:22:37):

I understand we need to go over it, but it's just frustrating.

Arthur (00:22:41):

They should be in no rush because Pashinyan, this guy, is very likely to win the election.

Arthur (00:22:46):

You can see that he's turned into a total dictator.

Arthur (00:22:49):

He has a carte blanche from Europe.

Arthur (00:22:51):

He has a carte blanche from the US.

Arthur (00:22:53):

Like we said the last time,

Arthur (00:22:54):

he's the Armenian Saddam Hussein that came to power with the blessing of the West.

Arthur (00:22:59):

So he knows he can do whatever he wants.

Arthur (00:23:01):

And look, we have like 60 political prisoners, including priests.

Arthur (00:23:04):

And, you know, like you said,

Arthur (00:23:08):

Whenever he doesn't like anybody,

Arthur (00:23:09):

he would write something on Facebook,

Arthur (00:23:10):

and then these people would show up and throw them to the ground.

Arthur (00:23:13):

This is a little Saddam Hussein.

Arthur (00:23:15):

He will win the election probably because of the behavior of our opposition.

Arthur (00:23:20):

They cannot come together and cannot come up with a strategy, sadly.

Arthur (00:23:25):

But if he does,

Arthur (00:23:26):

he's probably just going to say,

Arthur (00:23:27):

this is enough for me to change the Constitution somehow.

Arthur (00:23:31):

I take this as a vote of confidence.

Arthur (00:23:33):

I don't think he's going to win the referendum,

Arthur (00:23:35):

but he will probably use his reelection as a platform to change the Constitution.

Asbed (00:23:40):

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised with that.

Asbed (00:23:42):

But as far as the opposition goes, I'm very interested in this.

Asbed (00:23:45):

They have, of course, pledged to block this referendum.

Asbed (00:23:48):

Do they have the capacity to do this?

Asbed (00:23:50):

Are they capable?

Asbed (00:23:51):

Do you have any confidence that they can block this referendum?

Arthur (00:23:55):

No, no.

Arthur (00:23:56):

But I'm curious as to what Hovik thinks.

Arthur (00:23:58):

I don't think they can.

Hovik (00:24:00):

Well, I'm not a member of any opposition party, but

Hovik (00:24:04):

I think we have to be fair that there is an unprecedented amount of Western PR that

Hovik (00:24:12):

is being thrown at Pashinyan and in support of Pashinyan.

Hovik (00:24:18):

I believe the European political community meeting is scheduled to happen right

Hovik (00:24:24):

before the elections.

Hovik (00:24:25):

I'm sure that Aliyev will maybe release a few hostages that he's holding in Baku currently.

Hovik (00:24:33):

I think that if the Constitution is passed,

Hovik (00:24:36):

it will be passed with a lot of falsifications because there needs to be about a

Hovik (00:24:42):

quorum.

Hovik (00:24:44):

So that is about 700 or 800,000 voters, I forget.

Hovik (00:24:49):

And a majority of them have to vote yes.

Hovik (00:24:51):

So that means at least...

Hovik (00:24:54):

25% of the population has to vote yes on a new constitution.

Hovik (00:24:58):

So somehow,

Hovik (00:24:59):

first he needs to convince people to go to the referendum polling booth and at the

Hovik (00:25:04):

same time vote yes.

Hovik (00:25:05):

And I just don't see what the benefit would be.

Hovik (00:25:09):

Maybe if EU throws some very big bones our way,

Hovik (00:25:14):

maybe that would be,

Hovik (00:25:15):

but if it's just a constitution that will remove things rather than adding new

Hovik (00:25:19):

things,

Hovik (00:25:21):

then I think the only way it could get done is through a massive amount of falsification.

Asbed (00:25:27):

Is it possible for him to basically change the law and then add the referendum to

Asbed (00:25:32):

the parliamentary election to conflate the two issues?

Hovik (00:25:36):

I think so. Well, I think it's possible.

Hovik (00:25:38):

So, you know, but but so we feared that that would be one tactic they would use is to change.

Hovik (00:25:45):

I mean, it's a constitutional law,

Hovik (00:25:46):

so it require a supermajority in the parliament,

Hovik (00:25:49):

which they have,

Hovik (00:25:50):

which they do have.

Hovik (00:25:51):

Yeah.

Hovik (00:25:52):

I mean, they're short by a few votes, I think.

Asbed (00:25:54):

I think they're short by one vote when Aghazaryan and those guys defected.

Hovik (00:25:59):

But they're able to twist arms.

Hovik (00:26:00):

And I'm sure that, you know, they were able to convince ten

Hovik (00:26:05):

you know archbishops to go against Catholicos Garegin II, so God knows what type

Hovik (00:26:10):

of compromise they have but uh short of so they will be able to change law but even

Hovik (00:26:15):

then I just don't see how um regular Armenians maybe i'm too naive but i don't just

Hovik (00:26:21):

don't see how regular Armenians would go and vote yes maybe they would go to the

Hovik (00:26:25):

polling booth and vote for pashinyan and civil contract but

Hovik (00:26:29):

If they're faced with the question of voting yes on the Constitution, I still doubt it.

Hovik (00:26:34):

But let's move to the church.

Hovik (00:26:38):

So as we know, the attack on the Armenian church is intensifying.

Hovik (00:26:43):

We talked a little bit about it.

Hovik (00:26:44):

And last week,

Hovik (00:26:47):

I mean, to be honest, it was a pretty shocking phenomenon.

Hovik (00:26:51):

A letter appeared on the internet from 13 archbishops to Catholicos Garegin II

Hovik (00:26:59):

demanding the defrocking of Archbishop Arshak Khachatryan.

Hovik (00:27:04):

Now, I think I have to give a little bit of background because in May,

Hovik (00:27:12):

Pashinyan openly threatened Archbishop Arshak, who has been very vocal against Pashinyan.

Hovik (00:27:19):

And he said that you are,

Hovik (00:27:21):

and I'm sorry for repeating this,

Hovik (00:27:22):

but he said you are doing your own aunt or uncle's wife.

Hovik (00:27:30):

And he alleged that essentially that Archbishop Arshak was having an affair with

Hovik (00:27:34):

his uncle's wife and without any shred of evidence.

Hovik (00:27:39):

Then suddenly leaks appeared.

Hovik (00:27:42):

recently that Archbishop Arshak denies that they are authentic.

Hovik (00:27:50):

But anyway, based on these leaks,

Hovik (00:27:51):

13 Archbishops demanded that Garegin II defrock Archbishop Arshak.

Hovik (00:27:58):

And on top of that, so that was a private letter to the Catholicos.

Hovik (00:28:05):

The letter alleges that the investigative committee has authenticated the video.

Hovik (00:28:12):

And this is all in a matter of days.

Hovik (00:28:14):

So how did the investigative committee authenticate a video?

Hovik (00:28:19):

How did that letter, how did that response get into the hands of the archbishops?

Hovik (00:28:23):

And how did that letter leak

Hovik (00:28:25):

to the media.

Hovik (00:28:26):

That's what we want to know.

Hovik (00:28:28):

And I think we know the answer.

Hovik (00:28:29):

But the end result is that 13 archbishops are now essentially revolting against the Catholicos.

Hovik (00:28:37):

10 of them, in the following few days, met with Pashinyan.

Hovik (00:28:40):

And it was a very humiliating picture when all of these archbishops in the past

Hovik (00:28:46):

have called Pashinyan to resign.

Hovik (00:28:49):

They were meeting with Pashinyan, shaking his hands and joining him in prayer.

Hovik (00:28:55):

and i i was also want to mention that one of the names on top of that list to that

Hovik (00:29:00):

letter on that letter was archbishop Hovnan Derderian head of the western diocese

Hovik (00:29:05):

of the united states um maybe he had honest intentions why he wanted to write that

Hovik (00:29:10):

letter but and he was not present at the video uh in in the video but he's in the

Hovik (00:29:15):

united states so that's you know and he has not clarified his position on why uh

Hovik (00:29:20):

you know he how that letter

Hovik (00:29:23):

He did not condemn the leaking of a letter.

Hovik (00:29:26):

He did not condemn the meeting with Pashinyan.

Hovik (00:29:29):

Anyway, how would you characterize what is happening, Arthur?

Arthur (00:29:34):

Let me just go very quickly because it's pretty disgusting.

Arthur (00:29:37):

So these images were obviously created with some kind of AI or some kind of editing technique.

Arthur (00:29:45):

I mean, I've done some movies in LA.

Arthur (00:29:47):

I know that I could take a picture of all of us and then put us in a certain place

Arthur (00:29:52):

and manipulate the image as much as I want,

Arthur (00:29:54):

especially these days with AI.

Arthur (00:29:56):

It's very, very, very easy.

Arthur (00:29:58):

So Sir Pazan said already that these were fake pictures.

Arthur (00:30:01):

He's never done anything like that.

Arthur (00:30:02):

This is also an outrageous invasion of somebody's private life that would never be

Arthur (00:30:06):

tolerated in France,

Arthur (00:30:08):

in England,

Arthur (00:30:09):

in America.

Arthur (00:30:10):

There are laws, specific laws, part of the penal code that...

Arthur (00:30:13):

punish people for doing something like this one of them got 18 years in prison in

Arthur (00:30:18):

california and kamala harris was the prosecutor then so this is just a disgusting

Arthur (00:30:23):

show this is unseemly but what's coming is actually much more serious like i said i

Arthur (00:30:29):

keep getting news from the united states that there is a intention a plan to

Arthur (00:30:34):

dismember the armenian church to create a schism to

Arthur (00:30:37):

to take part of its property and to establish another church in Armenia,

Arthur (00:30:42):

possibly under the control of the evangelicals and gradually push Armenians out of

Arthur (00:30:51):

Jerusalem and possibly other regions of the Middle East.

Arthur (00:30:54):

I did not want to believe any of this,

Arthur (00:30:56):

but now we're seeing some dots,

Arthur (00:31:00):

some facts, and you can connect them.

Arthur (00:31:02):

And they're very consistent.

Arthur (00:31:04):

What Hovic said about the evangelicals cheering,

Arthur (00:31:07):

on as pashinyan attacks our church this whole prayer you know breakfast thing that

Arthur (00:31:12):

is not part of the armenian tradition and obviously it's not it's not our format

Arthur (00:31:17):

it's not our tradition uh the fact uh the fact that he is in fact destroying our

Arthur (00:31:23):

church from within there are these nine people from within the church so it's

Arthur (00:31:28):

everything is happening and then the pressure on armenians in jerusalem

Arthur (00:31:31):

All of it fits the news that I'm getting.

Arthur (00:31:34):

It's consistent with the news that I'm getting.

Arthur (00:31:36):

So we're looking at an attack on our church,

Arthur (00:31:39):

dismembered of our church,

Arthur (00:31:41):

and then a threat to the diaspora.

Arthur (00:31:43):

Because when you neutralize the church and...

Arthur (00:31:47):

submit when this church submits to you then you can actually get rid of the

Arthur (00:31:51):

diaspora because the church is one of those mechanisms that keeps our community

Arthur (00:31:55):

alive and this would be the you know very very big and century old dream of turkey

Arthur (00:32:02):

to get rid of our diaspora and to get rid of our church and he he is doing it but

Arthur (00:32:06):

one one thing we should be asking yes in Armenia if you fight against him you'll be

Arthur (00:32:10):

arrested and beaten and maybe killed because two people were actually killed

Arthur (00:32:15):

But we have his proponents in the diaspora.

Arthur (00:32:17):

That's what's so interesting.

Arthur (00:32:18):

There are people who live in the West and they are still supporting him.

Arthur (00:32:22):

We should look at ourselves,

Arthur (00:32:25):

look at this disease and find out how are people becoming a part of this cult,

Arthur (00:32:30):

a cult that says that we have to give everything up.

Arthur (00:32:32):

We have to surrender.

Arthur (00:32:33):

We have to surrender our dignity.

Arthur (00:32:35):

We have to submit, forget our past.

Arthur (00:32:37):

No other nation would tolerate it.

Arthur (00:32:40):

We should talk to the people in the diaspora who support him and find out how to

Arthur (00:32:43):

cure this disease.

Hovik (00:32:45):

Now, I also want to mention that I watched yesterday Archbishop Arshak gave a press conference.

Hovik (00:32:53):

I watched it.

Hovik (00:32:54):

A few points that I want to call out and we'll include a link to the press conference.

Hovik (00:32:58):

But he denied, utterly denied that any of this is authentic.

Hovik (00:33:03):

He said that Armenian National Security Service

Hovik (00:33:07):

had tried to meet with him two times,

Hovik (00:33:10):

or had actually met with him two times,

Hovik (00:33:12):

not because he was compelled,

Hovik (00:33:14):

but they just,

Hovik (00:33:16):

you know, were questioning his statements.

Hovik (00:33:19):

They were asking, you know, let's talk about this.

Hovik (00:33:22):

All of this preceded this leaking of, you know, what he calls fabricated video.

Hovik (00:33:29):

And he also said that he had proposed,

Hovik (00:33:32):

and I believe Garegin II had accepted,

Hovik (00:33:34):

to create a commission within the church

Hovik (00:33:36):

to investigate the matter.

Hovik (00:33:38):

But the bottom line is that these 13 archbishops,

Hovik (00:33:43):

I would say maybe even apostates,

Hovik (00:33:46):

Archbishop Bagdad Srbazan and Mikayel Ajapahyan used the word tiradav,

Hovik (00:33:52):

or I guess,

Hovik (00:33:53):

betrayer of the,

Hovik (00:33:55):

you know,

Hovik (00:33:56):

betrayer.

Hovik (00:33:59):

They didn't wait for the internal church to resolve this,

Hovik (00:34:02):

and somehow this was leaked,

Hovik (00:34:05):

perhaps by one of them,

Hovik (00:34:06):

and we had this show by Pashinyan.

Hovik (00:34:10):

We know that many of these so-called archbishops are not very ethical in themselves.

Hovik (00:34:22):

Motive that Pashinyan is using is morality.

Hovik (00:34:26):

He's alleging that Archbishop Arshak was an adulterer.

Hovik (00:34:30):

He violated his oath of celibacy.

Hovik (00:34:33):

But at the same time, among those who signed the letter, one of the archbishops is...

Hovik (00:34:45):

One of them is known by the nickname Bentley because of the humongous possessions he has.

Hovik (00:34:50):

All of the archbishops probably are rumored to be dollar millionaires.

Hovik (00:34:55):

But the other archbishop,

Hovik (00:34:58):

Arakel Karamyan,

Hovik (00:35:00):

has for a long time been rumored to be the father of former National Security

Hovik (00:35:06):

Service head,

Hovik (00:35:09):

Argishti Karamyan.

Hovik (00:35:10):

So interesting connection there.

Hovik (00:35:13):

And this was all rumors until Pashinyan himself alluded to this in an interview recently.

Hovik (00:35:19):

He said, yeah, well, there are some things that need to be investigated.

Hovik (00:35:24):

Again, the last names match, but Argishti Karamyan's patronymic is Elbek.

Hovik (00:35:31):

But whenever he has been questioned about his father,

Hovik (00:35:36):

he has refused to answer any questions about this.

Hovik (00:35:40):

Anyway, so let me just summarize by saying the morals of these archbishops who went against

Hovik (00:35:46):

Catholicus Garrigan II are probably...

Hovik (00:35:49):

not fully bulletproof.

Hovik (00:35:51):

So is this really about morals?

Hovik (00:35:53):

How does any of this stand up to any?

Asbed (00:35:57):

Can I interject for a second?

Asbed (00:36:00):

I'm listening. Of course, I've read a lot of this stuff also.

Asbed (00:36:03):

But what the hell is the crime here?

Asbed (00:36:06):

If the archbishop has actually slept with somebody, that's not illegal.

Asbed (00:36:11):

Why is the investigative body jumping in?

Asbed (00:36:14):

Where did they get this video supposedly?

Arthur (00:36:18):

It should be resolved within the church.

Asbed (00:36:21):

Of course, but even the church, let's say the Catholicos decides not to do anything about it.

Asbed (00:36:27):

That's his purview.

Asbed (00:36:28):

These bishops and archbishops are serving at the pleasure of the Catholicos.

Asbed (00:36:32):

What's the crime?

Asbed (00:36:33):

Why is the government involved in this?

Hovik (00:36:36):

what's funny is the crime is the leaking of personal information right so

Hovik (00:36:40):

absolutely it's the government that has committed a crime so so so archbishop

Hovik (00:36:45):

arshak is not accused of any crime they initiate a case of his information leaking

Hovik (00:36:51):

so they're saying well your information leaked so we must investigate who leaked

Hovik (00:36:55):

this then they leak

Hovik (00:36:57):

the information,

Hovik (00:36:58):

then they use that essentially to,

Hovik (00:37:01):

they wrap this material around some kind of official investigation.

Asbed (00:37:04):

In America, this would take down the chief of the FBI easily.

Hovik (00:37:09):

Okay, this is garbage.

Asbed (00:37:10):

This has nothing to do with the church.

Asbed (00:37:12):

This has something to do with the crimes of this government.

Asbed (00:37:15):

And,

Asbed (00:37:16):

you know, once we get past this,

Asbed (00:37:18):

because Arthur very succinctly put what's going on against the church.

Asbed (00:37:21):

I don't want to repeat that.

Asbed (00:37:23):

But what else are we missing?

Asbed (00:37:24):

There must be some other things that they are hiding with all this noise.

Asbed (00:37:27):

They're hiding something that's going on behind all this noise so that we don't pay

Asbed (00:37:31):

attention to it.

Arthur (00:37:33):

First of all, remember the case of the Catholic Church in the United States in Boston?

Arthur (00:37:38):

There was some very serious violations.

Arthur (00:37:43):

Did the FBI get involved and arrest the priests?

Arthur (00:37:46):

I don't think that that happened.

Arthur (00:37:48):

Did anybody try to create a schism within the Catholic Church?

Arthur (00:37:51):

No.

Arthur (00:37:52):

This should have been handled within the church, just like any other violation.

Arthur (00:37:55):

It has nothing to do, like you said, Asbed, very astutely.

Arthur (00:37:59):

This has nothing to do with the Armenian state,

Arthur (00:38:01):

but violating somebody's privacy laws and distributing those disgusting pictures on

Arthur (00:38:07):

Telegram that actually could be seen by children is actually a crime.

Arthur (00:38:12):

We have become a Venezuelan

Arthur (00:38:14):

soap opera we have our so-called government finding out who has children who

Arthur (00:38:19):

doesn't have children who slept with whom uh actually i missed last time we talked

Arthur (00:38:23):

about it our so-called prime minister even threatened to shake his finger or shake

Arthur (00:38:29):

something else at someone he said that in the parliament in parliament can you

Arthur (00:38:33):

believe it in our national council we have people speaking like this

Arthur (00:38:37):

If they want to sue somebody,

Arthur (00:38:39):

they should sue themselves for this volcano of garbage and insults and disgusting

Arthur (00:38:46):

language and obscenities that's coming from these people.

Arthur (00:38:49):

By the way, today they finally promised to be good, and I'll believe it when I see it.

Arthur (00:38:53):

So this is a complete violation of a fundamental principle of separating the church

Arthur (00:38:59):

from the state.

Arthur (00:39:00):

In the US, even Thomas Jefferson said there has to be a wall of separation.

Arthur (00:39:04):

The state has no business interfering in this.

Arthur (00:39:07):

And don't forget that we're dealing with a master manipulator.

Arthur (00:39:10):

This guy, this is what he's done his whole life when he was editor-in-chief of a newspaper

Arthur (00:39:14):

called Armenian Times.

Arthur (00:39:15):

He was a master of blackmail.

Arthur (00:39:18):

He would find some compromising information about someone and then make them pay

Arthur (00:39:22):

for him not to publicize it.

Arthur (00:39:24):

Just look at how they attacked me.

Arthur (00:39:26):

Just because I said in August, this is it, they gave up the corridor and we're gonna lose Sunik.

Arthur (00:39:32):

Just because I said that, again, like 20 or 30 or 50 of them attacked immediately together.

Arthur (00:39:39):

Somebody sent a signal.

Arthur (00:39:41):

with WhatsApp or text messages.

Arthur (00:39:42):

This is how he manages our little republic.

Arthur (00:39:44):

And they all attacked at the same time, and they made some outrageous allegations.

Arthur (00:39:49):

They even montaged my interview in which they alleged I said something about the

Arthur (00:39:53):

entire Armenian people.

Arthur (00:39:54):

I did not.

Arthur (00:39:55):

I said during the same interview,

Arthur (00:39:56):

I'm talking about some people who wouldn't mind selling their children.

Arthur (00:40:00):

And actually, I didn't say enough because there are people like that.

Arthur (00:40:04):

For example, the woman who said, yeah, I lost my son, but I found you.

Arthur (00:40:08):

Find a way to call this any other way or any other country where anybody said

Arthur (00:40:13):

anything like this.

Arthur (00:40:14):

Whatever.

Arthur (00:40:15):

This is a machine that has been oiled and prepared.

Arthur (00:40:19):

This is a machine of blackmail, manipulation and dark PR.

Arthur (00:40:23):

And he is the master of all of this.

Arthur (00:40:25):

So I'm not surprised this is happening, but the risks are very serious.

Arthur (00:40:28):

We may lose our church, we may lose our diaspora in the long term.

Arthur (00:40:32):

And what amazes me is that people are still not in the streets,

Arthur (00:40:36):

in Armenia,

Arthur (00:40:37):

in Los Angeles,

Arthur (00:40:38):

in New York, in Paris.

Arthur (00:40:39):

Why are they not?

Arthur (00:40:40):

When we have to commemorate the genocide, we take to the streets, which is right, and we should.

Arthur (00:40:46):

But we don't when we're seeing that our little,

Arthur (00:40:48):

whatever little bit of our motherland is being lost,

Arthur (00:40:50):

we don't take to the streets.

Asbed (00:40:52):

It's the frog in the frying pan,

Asbed (00:40:54):

one little bit at a time,

Asbed (00:40:55):

and people are not feeling what they're losing.

Hovik (00:40:57):

That's exactly right.

Hovik (00:40:59):

That's exactly right.

Hovik (00:41:00):

Let me mention that Archbishop Mikhail Ajapahyan and Archbishop Bagdad Galstanyan,

Hovik (00:41:05):

who remained imprisoned for merely speaking out and trumped up charges,

Hovik (00:41:10):

have released statements related to this affair.

Hovik (00:41:13):

The last statement, I'm just going to read a few points from it.

Hovik (00:41:18):

It begins with the following.

Hovik (00:41:20):

10 out of 57 members of the Episcopal College of the Mother Sea have officially

Hovik (00:41:26):

announced that they no longer wish to be part of our brotherhood.

Hovik (00:41:29):

And they said that the decision was yours, do not blame us.

Hovik (00:41:33):

They asked the Catholicos of all Armenians to defrock those 10 members.

Hovik (00:41:42):

Furthermore, they asked the church to convene a Episcopal College to discuss this matter.

Hovik (00:41:50):

This is something that happened back in November,

Hovik (00:41:55):

shortly before they arrested Archbishop Ajapahyan,

Hovik (00:41:58):

who was leading those discussions.

Hovik (00:42:02):

And lastly,

Hovik (00:42:04):

they also called for the church to have a national church assembly,

Hovik (00:42:10):

which would be the highest instance of the clergymen and members of the church and

Hovik (00:42:17):

lay people gathering to vote on matters.

Hovik (00:42:20):

So I believe the

Hovik (00:42:22):

Catholicos and his office have responded by saying the Episcopal College will be

Hovik (00:42:27):

convened sometime in December,

Hovik (00:42:31):

so we have to wait for the results of that.

Hovik (00:42:35):

But yeah,

Hovik (00:42:37):

this is a very troubling situation,

Hovik (00:42:40):

and our church has kept Armenian identity alive for 1,700 years,

Hovik (00:42:44):

and we're now seeing even that being dismantled.

Hovik (00:42:52):

by the hands of our own leadership.

Asbed (00:42:55):

Well, when I mentioned that, one of the concerns that I had is what else is going on?

Asbed (00:43:00):

There are lots.

Asbed (00:43:01):

I'll just pick one.

Asbed (00:43:02):

And that has to do with this so-called these border commissions that are meeting.

Asbed (00:43:10):

And this time they met in Baku.

Asbed (00:43:11):

And we still have very little information about what's being discussed at these meetings.

Asbed (00:43:16):

In fact, the press releases say almost nothing.

Asbed (00:43:19):

They discuss what to discuss or modalities of discussion, et cetera, et cetera.

Asbed (00:43:24):

But that's all basically.

Asbed (00:43:27):

And then eventually we hear that there have been unilateral concessions.

Asbed (00:43:31):

Like last year, there were all those Tavush lands that were handed over to Azerbaijan.

Asbed (00:43:37):

One of the things that I've also heard,

Asbed (00:43:38):

of course,

Asbed (00:43:39):

in concessions, is the fact that there will be no maps.

Asbed (00:43:44):

Initially, I think Pashinyan's government had insisted that we use,

Asbed (00:43:47):

what was it,

Asbed (00:43:48):

the 1975 Soviet army maps for identifying which areas are

Asbed (00:43:55):

But after Aliyev rejected that,

Asbed (00:43:57):

there are currently, as far as I can tell,

Asbed (00:43:58):

no maps,

Asbed (00:43:59):

which will form the basis of the decisions that this border committee makes.

Asbed (00:44:03):

It's basically what Aliyev thinks is his, and then that's how it goes on.

Asbed (00:44:07):

So one can say that there is basically zero trust in this regime,

Asbed (00:44:11):

so-called border commission,

Asbed (00:44:13):

which met in Baku.

Asbed (00:44:15):

So these decisions are now made in Baku, as a matter of fact.

Asbed (00:44:19):

There were no announcements, no nothing.

Asbed (00:44:20):

What can we expect from this process,

Asbed (00:44:22):

especially when Pashinyan,

Asbed (00:44:23):

Papikyan,

Asbed (00:44:24):

and all these acolytes are saying that Armenia's sovereignty will be achieved

Asbed (00:44:30):

allegedly through the work of these commissions?

Arthur (00:44:35):

I think I'm going to delegate to Hovik.

Arthur (00:44:36):

I'll just say that we have seen how Armenian sovereignty is served.

Arthur (00:44:42):

We do get tired of these questions, don't we?

Arthur (00:44:45):

Well, because we're dealing with a madman and a society that is the part of which is very ill.

Arthur (00:44:51):

And he's using a very powerful propaganda machine funded by the West to brainwash our people.

Arthur (00:44:56):

We would have never imagined Armenia coming to this.

Arthur (00:44:58):

This would have been unthinkable in Soviet times or in the 90s, for example.

Arthur (00:45:03):

We would have never imagined this in a bad dream that we would come to this point.

Arthur (00:45:08):

Aliyev, like you said, Asbed, he just says what he wants and he gets what he wants.

Arthur (00:45:12):

That's how it is.

Arthur (00:45:14):

We gave up parts of Jermuk, the hills over Jermuk.

Arthur (00:45:19):

We gave up the enclaves in Davos.

Arthur (00:45:21):

We're going to give up more.

Arthur (00:45:23):

He's already speaking about getting some extra territory.

Arthur (00:45:26):

This manipulator,

Arthur (00:45:27):

when he speaks about getting something more,

Arthur (00:45:29):

it means he's going to give something up.

Arthur (00:45:30):

When they lost Karabakh, they said it's a victory.

Arthur (00:45:33):

In psychology, this is called gaslighting.

Arthur (00:45:36):

When someone beats you up and says he never touched you,

Arthur (00:45:39):

when someone abuses you and says I never abused you,

Arthur (00:45:42):

when someone sets your house on fire and said, oh, you're just imagining it.

Arthur (00:45:46):

This is a very, very cruel psychological torture technique called gaslighting.

Arthur (00:45:53):

And we have gaslighting on a national scale,

Arthur (00:45:56):

supported by Europe,

Arthur (00:45:57):

supported by the US,

Arthur (00:45:58):

supported by the Soros Foundation,

Arthur (00:46:00):

by hundreds of millions of dollars pouring into Armenia to pay these journalists

Arthur (00:46:06):

who continue gaslighting our people.

Arthur (00:46:08):

As we are humiliated and tortured every day, they're telling us that this is a victory.

Hovik (00:46:13):

The only thing I could add is that in any other circumstance,

Hovik (00:46:18):

we would expect that this would be a normal process.

Hovik (00:46:25):

But given all these other capitulative steps,

Hovik (00:46:28):

and given that Pashinyan is already walking back agreements that he made,

Hovik (00:46:34):

the Border Commission was supposed to start its work north to south.

Hovik (00:46:40):

In Tavush.

Hovik (00:46:43):

in Tavush. But even that was changed.

Hovik (00:46:45):

That was not good for Armenians because in the south we have many lands that are

Hovik (00:46:53):

occupied by Azerbaijan.

Hovik (00:46:55):

So it would be better for us,

Hovik (00:46:57):

assuming that process was honest,

Hovik (00:46:59):

it would be better for us if the process started from the south.

Hovik (00:47:02):

Now they have modified the agenda again, and now they're going to first

Hovik (00:47:07):

work on the bit of land in the south that is related to the so-called trip,

Hovik (00:47:12):

Trump route,

Hovik (00:47:14):

so that they can delimit the border that will be crossed by the Trump route.

Hovik (00:47:21):

Basically,

Hovik (00:47:22):

any demand from Azerbaijan,

Hovik (00:47:24):

anything that is to Azerbaijan's advantage is being prioritized by Pashina.

Hovik (00:47:30):

So I see

Asbed (00:47:31):

Why they can't say,

Asbed (00:47:32):

let's work on that one,

Asbed (00:47:33):

but we're also going to work on this thing,

Asbed (00:47:35):

which has direct reflection on our sovereign territory,

Hovik (00:47:39):

right?

Asbed (00:47:40):

I mean, it's very rational.

Asbed (00:47:42):

It's very reasonable.

Asbed (00:47:43):

I'm not asking for something crazy here.

Asbed (00:47:46):

It's just simple negotiation to say, you want to work on this one?

Asbed (00:47:49):

Let's also work on that one, both decisions at the same time.

Hovik (00:47:52):

Yeah, there is no evidence of any concessions or any goodwill by Azerbaijan.

Hovik (00:47:58):

And everything that is being done is being done in response to Azerbaijan's demands.

Arthur (00:48:05):

But why are you surprised, Hovik?

Arthur (00:48:07):

Are people taking to the streets in LA, in Boston, in New York, in London?

Arthur (00:48:13):

Well, in London sometimes I've seen it, in LA too.

Arthur (00:48:15):

In Paris, in all of our major communities, are they taking to the street?

Arthur (00:48:20):

Are people in Yerevan taking to the street?

Arthur (00:48:22):

They are, except most of them end up in restaurants.

Arthur (00:48:24):

I was there when Karapetyan was arrested.

Arthur (00:48:27):

You couldn't find a free table anywhere.

Arthur (00:48:31):

People are under this mass hypnosis.

Arthur (00:48:35):

They're hypnotized.

Arthur (00:48:36):

They don't understand what's happening to them.

Arthur (00:48:38):

And it's all due to this huge propaganda machine and mainly channel one of our television.

Arthur (00:48:43):

If you have people like this guy you mentioned,

Arthur (00:48:45):

come on and tell us that Turkey never meant any harm.

Arthur (00:48:50):

She just finished killing 5,000 boys.

Arthur (00:48:52):

What are you talking about?

Arthur (00:48:53):

And this is broadcast on our national television.

Arthur (00:48:55):

What do you want?

Arthur (00:48:56):

This is mass hypnosis.

Arthur (00:48:59):

How did these people give him his vote?

Arthur (00:49:01):

Yes, of course.

Arthur (00:49:03):

There was a rigged election.

Arthur (00:49:06):

He did what's called jerrymandering.

Arthur (00:49:09):

He redrew the borders of the electoral district to include some villages that were

Arthur (00:49:14):

going to vote in his favor,

Arthur (00:49:16):

of course.

Arthur (00:49:17):

And he turned off the lights, of course.

Arthur (00:49:19):

And did Europe condemn it?

Arthur (00:49:20):

Of course not.

Arthur (00:49:22):

Of course not.

Arthur (00:49:23):

This is his usual trick.

Arthur (00:49:24):

But some people still voted for him.

Arthur (00:49:26):

This is the question we should be asking.

Arthur (00:49:28):

Why are people not seeing what's coming?

Arthur (00:49:31):

Why are they voting for him?

Hovik (00:49:32):

even though they are not in the majority uh yeah it's i understand it's a

Hovik (00:49:37):

rhetorical question and i think that you know the best we can do is uh you know

Hovik (00:49:44):

mention the facts present the facts to our listeners i think that uh if you look at

Hovik (00:49:50):

questions and polls there's a large percentage of armenian people who are uh you

Hovik (00:49:56):

know against the policies that he uh espouses including changing the constitution

Hovik (00:50:02):

But whether, you know, for one reason or not, or another, he's still in power.

Hovik (00:50:08):

And we have to,

Hovik (00:50:10):

I think,

Hovik (00:50:11):

at one point...

Asbed (00:50:12):

I think ultimately,

Asbed (00:50:13):

Hovig,

Asbed (00:50:14):

the main issue here is that people are not holding him responsible and accountable.

Asbed (00:50:18):

Okay?

Asbed (00:50:19):

They are not holding him.

Asbed (00:50:20):

This is what Arthur is saying.

Asbed (00:50:22):

And I'm a million percent in agreement.

Asbed (00:50:24):

I mean, why are people not in the streets?

Asbed (00:50:27):

Where is the opposition saying,

Asbed (00:50:29):

let's get on the streets and make...

Hovik (00:50:29):

How many opposition members are in jail?

Asbed (00:50:32):

A whole bunch are in jail.

Hovik (00:50:33):

How many church leaders are in jail?

Hovik (00:50:34):

That's right.

Asbed (00:50:35):

And yet there's no anger, there's no revolt, there's nobody saying...

Hovik (00:50:39):

Rather than blaming people,

Hovik (00:50:41):

which I understand is very primal instinct,

Hovik (00:50:46):

I think we legitimately could blame the leadership of the opposition.

Hovik (00:50:51):

But I also want to recognize that the opposition is also under severe punishment.

Hovik (00:50:59):

Look at, you know,

Hovik (00:51:00):

even Ashotyan,

Hovik (00:51:01):

when he's released,

Hovik (00:51:02):

he's wearing an ankle bracelet and,

Hovik (00:51:05):

you know, he has to be home by 9 p.m.

Hovik (00:51:07):

So this is a complete, you know, surveillance society.

Hovik (00:51:12):

And just the fact that you can get 13 archbishops who have voted for Catholicos Garegin II,

Hovik (00:51:18):

During the 1999 National Church Assembly,

Hovik (00:51:25):

who voted for him and placated him all this time,

Hovik (00:51:28):

have now turned against him,

Hovik (00:51:30):

God knows what is possible.

Hovik (00:51:32):

I'm not saying we shouldn't blame the opposition.

Hovik (00:51:35):

Hovik, you're right.

Arthur (00:51:36):

Hovik is right.

Arthur (00:51:37):

You have a point.

Arthur (00:51:38):

I agree. You can't just blame the people and the opposition.

Arthur (00:51:41):

The opposition is under severe strain.

Arthur (00:51:43):

They're threatened.

Arthur (00:51:44):

They're afraid.

Arthur (00:51:45):

But no one is forcing Armenians to go and celebrate every evening in the restaurants.

Arthur (00:51:49):

You should see. I mean, my friends are in Yerevan.

Arthur (00:51:50):

They're sending me pictures.

Arthur (00:51:52):

They're telling me it's a party.

Arthur (00:51:53):

The people are partying.

Arthur (00:51:55):

This is what's maddening.

Arthur (00:51:56):

Most of them are tourists.

Arthur (00:52:00):

Okay, I want to hope that you are right.

Asbed (00:52:04):

I hope you're right.

Asbed (00:52:05):

All right.

Asbed (00:52:07):

Arthur, thank you so much for joining us.

Asbed (00:52:09):

I know it was very short notice we gave you to come on.

Asbed (00:52:13):

We appreciate your time.

Hovik (00:52:14):

Arthur, I just want to actually ask, you know, because we never connected the dots.

Hovik (00:52:18):

You're currently not in Armenia.

Hovik (00:52:19):

You mentioned attacks against you.

Hovik (00:52:21):

Can you tell us the current status of that,

Hovik (00:52:24):

you know, and why,

Hovik (00:52:25):

you know,

Hovik (00:52:26):

is your decision to not be in Armenia related to those attacks?

Arthur (00:52:30):

Well, yeah, because I want to finish my book.

Arthur (00:52:33):

If I'm in jail, they will not give me my computer.

Arthur (00:52:36):

And I can't write by hand.

Arthur (00:52:37):

I haven't written by hand in 25 years.

Arthur (00:52:40):

So I'm going to have to bring all my books with me, and they will not let me take it to jail.

Arthur (00:52:44):

So I have to finish my book.

Arthur (00:52:46):

Once I finish my book, I can go to jail.

Arthur (00:52:48):

But right now, no.

Arthur (00:52:50):

It's a very important book, and I have to finish it.

Arthur (00:52:52):

They threatened to arrest me.

Arthur (00:52:54):

We have a mayor of Danosavan, as I call him.

Arthur (00:53:00):

The Nosvil,

Arthur (00:53:02):

the Nos in Russian is,

Arthur (00:53:03):

you know, during Stalin's time when they would report each other.

Arthur (00:53:06):

So that's he keeps writing reports on people.

Arthur (00:53:09):

It's so funny that the West would support a mini Stalinist.

Arthur (00:53:13):

It's just incredible that Europe would go as low as this.

Arthur (00:53:16):

They would support a guy who is reporting on people just like during Stalin's times.

Arthur (00:53:19):

But nothing is too dirty for them, I guess.

Arthur (00:53:22):

So, yeah, I can't go there because they'll arrest me and they will come up with something.

Arthur (00:53:26):

They will declare that I'm a Russian agent.

Arthur (00:53:28):

By the way, apparently somebody told me that I'm also an American agent and an Israeli agent.

Arthur (00:53:34):

So my life keeps getting more exciting.

Arthur (00:53:37):

But nothing would beat the fact that I'm also an opera singer and my name was Loretta.

Arthur (00:53:41):

That was my favorite.

Arthur (00:53:42):

And they're still saying this.

Arthur (00:53:43):

So my life is becoming just incredibly exciting.

Arthur (00:53:47):

I'm very happy, but I'm not going to go to jail for right now.

Arthur (00:53:49):

I'm busy.

Arthur (00:53:50):

I can't do it.

Asbed (00:53:51):

Thank you, Arthur.

Asbed (00:53:52):

Thanks for joining us.

Asbed (00:53:54):

Okay. Thank you.

Asbed (00:53:55):

Take care.

Asbed (00:53:56):

Thanks.

Asbed (00:53:59):

Okay,

Asbed (00:54:00):

Hovik,

Asbed (00:54:02):

so we have some,

Asbed (00:54:04):

is it the response to the letters we should be calling this section?

Hovik (00:54:09):

I don't know what we should be calling it,

Hovik (00:54:10):

but we do have a comment on one of our YouTube videos,

Hovik (00:54:15):

episode number 490 from an interview with Joel Veldkamp.

Hovik (00:54:20):

And we want to address that comment directly during this show.

Hovik (00:54:24):

So the commenter, maybe, you know, it's a user, JacobPursley1800.

Hovik (00:54:31):

I can't authenticate that with the Jacob Pursley who is an evangelical

Hovik (00:54:40):

missionary in Yerevan,

Hovik (00:54:42):

but it appears to be that way.

Hovik (00:54:44):

So if I'm wrong, then I apologize.

Hovik (00:54:48):

But the comment basically says that he is one of the organizers of the Republic of

Hovik (00:54:54):

Armenia prayer breakfast.

Hovik (00:54:57):

And he takes objection with our portraying the prayer breakfast as an Armenian

Hovik (00:55:04):

government hosted event.

Hovik (00:55:08):

He said that our analysis is not fact-based.

Hovik (00:55:12):

He also points out that our guest Joel, for whatever reason, did not attend every session.

Hovik (00:55:17):

All that is fine to note.

Hovik (00:55:19):

But I think none of that addresses the issues that we were trying to raise,

Hovik (00:55:23):

which was the persecution of the clergy.

Hovik (00:55:25):

In fact,

Hovik (00:55:26):

Percy's own,

Hovik (00:55:27):

now I'm going to this Substack page,

Hovik (00:55:31):

which also claims to be from Jacob Percy.

Hovik (00:55:36):

And he has written an article that says, Armenia's golden age has begun.

Hovik (00:55:41):

It is about the prayer breakfast.

Hovik (00:55:43):

Nothing but glowing praise of Pashinyan,

Hovik (00:55:47):

and the event that they held,

Hovik (00:55:49):

the atmosphere,

Hovik (00:55:50):

the speeches, the hope for the future,

Hovik (00:55:51):

and nothing about the crackdown on the Armenian church,

Hovik (00:55:56):

the priests under the arrest,

Hovik (00:55:57):

the pressure on the mother sea,

Hovik (00:55:59):

and the broader campaign against religious institutions.

Hovik (00:56:03):

It is as if the prayer breakfast happened in a parallel universe where these

Hovik (00:56:07):

problems do not exist,

Hovik (00:56:09):

and that omission itself should raise eyebrows.

Hovik (00:56:12):

Now onto the core question, which personally sidesteps.

Hovik (00:56:16):

Why did we say that the event was organized by or tied to the Pashinyan regime?

Hovik (00:56:24):

Simply because the facts line up that way.

Hovik (00:56:27):

So the prayer breakfast was officially organized by the individual believers club

Hovik (00:56:33):

along with a number of other Evangelical organizations or religious organizations

Hovik (00:56:40):

that they count up.

Hovik (00:56:41):

They call themselves civil society Armenian civil society but

Hovik (00:56:46):

Let's see, who is at the head of this Individual Believers Club?

Hovik (00:56:50):

It is an individual by the name of Stepan Sargsyan,

Hovik (00:56:53):

and he is identified as the coordinator of Anna Hakobyan's "Education is Fashionable"

Hovik (00:57:02):

initiative.

Hovik (00:57:03):

We talked many times in the past about Education is Fashionable, Asbed do you remember those?

Asbed (00:57:08):

I do.

Hovik (00:57:09):

Yeah. So Education is Fashionable is funded by

Hovik (00:57:13):

by MyStep Foundation, which is formerly the name of the civil contract party.

Hovik (00:57:21):

It's run by Anna Hakobyan.

Hovik (00:57:25):

And Education is Fashionable is also funded by the state budget. In fact, when we asked...

Asbed (00:57:32):

Certainly Pashinyan's office, the prime minister's budget.

Hovik (00:57:38):

And the amount that the Armenian government is funding Educational Is Fashionable

Hovik (00:57:45):

and My Step is...

Hovik (00:57:49):

deemed to be a state secret.

Hovik (00:57:50):

So if the head of the organizing body works for a project that is tied to the prime

Hovik (00:57:55):

minister's household and financed by taxpayers,

Hovik (00:57:58):

the claim that this was purely independent,

Hovik (00:58:01):

that this event was purely independent,

Hovik (00:58:03):

becomes hard to defend in my opinion.

Hovik (00:58:06):

And when you consider fact-based analysis,

Hovik (00:58:09):

I think this really also is an important fact to mention.

Hovik (00:58:14):

So now let's add timing, messaging and the specific targeted audience.

Hovik (00:58:19):

And this pattern becomes even sharper.

Hovik (00:58:21):

You know, the same government that is arresting clergy at home is reaching out to Western

Hovik (00:58:25):

Christian groups,

Hovik (00:58:27):

seeking validation.

Hovik (00:58:28):

And this is exactly what organizations like Pursley's are doing.

Hovik (00:58:31):

A disservice to the Armenian Christians, in my opinion.

Hovik (00:58:34):

And that is the contradiction we highlighted in our discussion with Joel,

Hovik (00:58:37):

which Pursley,

Hovik (00:58:40):

or this user claiming to be Pursley,

Hovik (00:58:41):

completely glossed over.

Hovik (00:58:43):

Instead, he offers what looks like a red herring,

Hovik (00:58:46):

details about who attended which sessions,

Hovik (00:58:49):

who spoke at Etchmiadzin,

Hovik (00:58:50):

who signed which invitations.

Hovik (00:58:52):

Interesting facts, but irrelevant to the political question.

Hovik (00:58:56):

If anything, his comments confirm our point.

Hovik (00:58:58):

When someone answers every question except the one that was asked,

Hovik (00:59:01):

the silence is usually the loudest part of the argument.

Hovik (00:59:05):

So we appreciate the engagement, keep them coming, and we're happy to discuss the details.

Hovik (00:59:10):

But the bigger issue remains,

Hovik (00:59:12):

a government under fire for persecuting the church is polishing its image with

Hovik (00:59:16):

foreign Christians.

Hovik (00:59:17):

As Robert Amsterdam calls it: "reputation laundering."

Hovik (00:59:20):

And the prayer breakfast fit neatly into that strategy.

Hovik (00:59:24):

That is what Pursley left out, and that is why we covered it the way we did.

Hovik (00:59:28):

So I think an Armenian church bishop was present at one of the sessions,

Hovik (00:59:33):

and I think that you can have cross-faith or cross-denominational endeavors.

Hovik (00:59:44):

That doesn't stop, you know,

Hovik (00:59:45):

as long as you acknowledge the fact,

Hovik (00:59:47):

which is that the Armenian church is under persecution,

Hovik (00:59:50):

and as long as you condemn it.

Hovik (00:59:52):

If you're claiming to be a missionary or religious organization in Armenia,

Hovik (00:59:57):

And today you're not talking about the persecution of the Armenian church.

Hovik (01:00:01):

Then you are very suspect in my book.

Hovik (01:00:03):

And you should be very suspect in the books of all Armenians who are members of the

Hovik (01:00:08):

Armenian Apostolic Church.

Asbed (01:00:10):

Okay, Hovik.

Asbed (01:00:12):

We have no time for the kitchen sink, as usual.

Asbed (01:00:15):

So we're going to close.

Asbed (01:00:18):

That was our Week in Review for November 30th, recorded on December 2, 2025.

Asbed (01:00:24):

We were talking with Dr.

Asbed (01:00:26):

Arthur Khachikyan,

Asbed (01:00:27):

international relations expert from Stanford University,

Asbed (01:00:30):

specializing in intervention.

Asbed (01:00:33):

Thank you very much for listening, folks.

Asbed (01:00:34):

Go to our show notes.

Asbed (01:00:36):

We'll put much of this information in the show notes,

Asbed (01:00:40):

podcasts.groong.org/episode-number.

Hovik (01:00:44):

Thank you.

Asbed (01:00:46):

Take care. We'll talk to you next week.

Hovik (01:00:47):

Bye.

Head Shot

Asbed Bedrossian

Co-host
Head Shot

Hovik Manucharyan

Co-host
Head Shot

Arthur Khachikyan

Guest

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